Ice hole stocking in Poconos

[Millsertime]

Interesting. I guess they don't want to postpone stockings this year. Bring out the ice augers and dump the buckets in!

http://wnep.com/2015/03/03/trout-stocking-on-frozen-creeks/

 

[tobewan77]

So is float stocking more effective or not? Guys will say they can move you know.

Others say they'll pack up for a while and not move far.

What say you?

 

[pcray1231]

So is float stocking more effective or not? Guys will say they can move you know.

Others say they'll pack up for a while and not move far.

What say you?

Too many variables for catch-alls. I've seen both happen, even in the same water on different years.

We often fish a large (Penns Creek sized) stream in NW PA. My dad used to help stock. Most years, the fish would spread out pretty good. Everyone caught a few fish relatively equally nomatter where you were. A few years back the water was low and cold at stocking time, and stayed that way through opening day. Where we were at, nobody caught a thing, all day long. On a whim, my dad went up to the exact spot where they dumped the buckets in, and threw a few casts. This was a shallow riffle with almost no holding water, and very close to shore. They were still stacked like cordwood right there. He called us up. To give an idea, on such a large stream, this was a place where only one person could fish at a time, and we had to take turns. 4 of us proceeded to catch 120+ fish between us in the afternoon.

It's an extreme example. Generally, on larger streams, they spread out. On smaller streams, not as much. But local water conditions make things vary greatly. If it's high, they move more. If it's an acidic stream, they move more. If holding water sucks, they move more. If the early season water temps are a little higher (closer to optimal), they move more. And all the vice versa's.

In general, I'm in favor of spreading the fish, and fishermen, out as much as possible. That day on the large stream, IMO, wasn't much fun despite crazy success levels. It just feels too artificial, and it's not how I wish to fish. In some of the smaller streams the "fish in a bucket" aspect can be more the norm than the exception. Fish the pool that was stocked and there's tons of fish in there. Go 200 yards down and you're relegated to looking for the occasional straggler.

Another advantage of float stocking. As a general rule, when fish spread out, they do so DOWNSTREAM of where the buckets were dumped. In streams with a lot of stocking points and good fish movement it doesn't much matter, everywhere gets fish. But in streams where there's largish gaps between stocking points, with bucket stocking you can have longish areas that are trout lean. Float stocking those stretches evens that out some.

 

[Mike]

Scientific paper read years ago said: float stocking, or spreading the front out, reduces the total catch ( or harvest ), but distributes the catch (or harvest)among more different anglers.

If you wish to fish a county where most streams see some to a lot of float stocking, you will want to fish Lancaster Co. The WCO and local sportsmen and school teachers are very enthusiastic about it. Lots of student help designing various float boxes and stocking.

 

[sandfly]

at least there won't be any netting at night there

 

[Fishidiot]

Mike wrote:
If you wish to fish a county where most streams see some to a lot of float stocking, you will want to fish Lancaster Co. The WCO and local sportsmen and school teachers are very enthusiastic about it. Lots of student help designing various float boxes and stocking.

Same here in Adams Co - good local folks around here usually do a good job of float stocking the local ATWs.

No doubt - this is going to be another very tough pre-season stocking year unless we get a lot of melting in the next couple weeks.

 

[FarmerDave]

I like the title, but which one of those guys are you calling an ice hole.

 

[troutbert]

tobewan77 wrote:
So is float stocking more effective or not?

I think float stocking is fine, as long as people are not removing large woody debris in order to do float stocking.

If a stream has a lot of large woody debris, float stocking is nearly impossible. But the LWD is very important to the stream, for creating pools and cover and other things, so it should be left in place.

 

[pcray1231]

Scientific paper read years ago said: float stocking, or spreading the front out, reduces the total catch ( or harvest ), but distributes the catch (or harvest)among more different anglers.

Makes perfect sense to me. Do you want one guy catching 50 and 5 other guys getting skunked? Or do you want 6 guys catching 30 between em?

I'd certainly prefer the latter.

Increasing HARVEST is, errr, should not be the goal. IMO, it's the anti-goal. Increasing CATCH is all fine and good, but certainly not a priority.

Distributing the catch over more anglers/more area should absolutely be a priority. Nobody wants 2 miles of fishless water and 1 pool loaded with fish, with combat fishermen vying for a spot. Even if you can clean up that way. You want to spread people out, give them a true outdoor experience, with the fish distribution as natural as can be reasonably achieved.

Even bucket stocking. More stocking points with fewer fish per spot should absolutely be a priority. I feel for the fishermen on the linked stream. Half the stocking points? Jeebus. Come opening morning there's gonna be a lot of people on unproductive water, having no clue their stretch wasn't stocked. At least there's a reason for it. When they skip spots out of laziness or "not having enough time", that tends to get some people fighting mad, and for good reason.

 

[tobewan77]

Nice. One thing i'll say about more spots while bucket stocking is that there has to be enough volunteers. My brother and I were able to take some time off and help one year (unfortuantely that's the only time i've been able to help).

There were a few volunteers and then a parade of people behind us just watching from their cars. Kinda made me sick.

So if the officers aren't getting much help i imagine they just hit spots directly off the road instead of walking in and finding spots.

 

[Maurice]

I would guess that those following and not helping were shy and didn't know how to get involved.

You get very little help without asking...The trouble is there is no leadership. When organized groups are involved in stockings, I can assure you that those leaning on their fenders would be approached and asked to help.

They would each have to say no to me before enjoying the rest of their day.

 

[laszlo]

I recall years ago when I helped stocking, when I attempted to spread out the fish with few buckets down stream. The officers were not very happy with how much time that was taking. They seemed rushed, like they needed to empty the truck as soon as possible. Now maybe there was enough access points where the fish didn't need to be spread out but they made me feel like the goal was to dump fish right there and quickly move on.

 

[drumat26]

The other day down near Harrisburg they were cutting holes in the ice with chainsaws.

 

[pcray1231]

I attempted to spread out the fish with few buckets down stream. The officers were not very happy with how much time that was taking. They seemed rushed, like they needed to empty the truck as soon as possible.

Pretty common in my experiences. They are rushed. They have to stock X amount of water before the day is through. More stops, longer stops, etc., just makes more work for them. They're workers, and don't give a rats arse about creating the optimal fishing experience for as many people as possible.

I can understand that there will always be this trade-off. Employees want to get the job done with as little work as possible. It's the job of the employers (managers) to pressure for the opposite.

The problem arises when it seems to be an intentional management decision to concentrate fish. Because, yes, concentrations of fish result in higher catch/harvest rates. As long as maximizing harvest per fish stocked is a goal, this will be the case. It shouldn't be the goal.

 

[Chaz]

pcray1231 wrote:

Scientific paper read years ago said: float stocking, or spreading the front out, reduces the total catch ( or harvest ), but distributes the catch (or harvest)among more different anglers.

Makes perfect sense to me. Do you want one guy catching 50 and 5 other guys getting skunked? Or do you want 6 guys catching 30 between em?

I'd certainly prefer the latter.

Increasing HARVEST is, errr, should not be the goal. IMO, it's the anti-goal. Increasing CATCH is all fine and good, but certainly not a priority.

Distributing the catch over more anglers/more area should absolutely be a priority. Nobody wants 2 miles of fishless water and 1 pool loaded with fish, with combat fishermen vying for a spot. Even if you can clean up that way. You want to spread people out, give them a true outdoor experience, with the fish distribution as natural as can be reasonably achieved.

Even bucket stocking. More stocking points with fewer fish per spot should absolutely be a priority. I feel for the fishermen on the linked stream. Half the stocking points? Jeebus. Come opening morning there's gonna be a lot of people on unproductive water, having no clue their stretch wasn't stocked. At least there's a reason for it. When they skip spots out of laziness or "not having enough time", that tends to get some people fighting mad, and for good reason.

The priority is to get done in 8 hours, so the fewer stops you make the quicker you're done. Given that, how does it make sense to stock Pine Creek from the Bellefonte hatchery, when Oswayo is much closer, and they can be stocking along the way to Pine Creek. It's a very long drive from Bellefonte Hatchery to village of Slate Run for instance. If it's about efficiency you use the least amount of time to get to the spot you're stocking.

 

[afishinado]

pcray1231 wrote:

I attempted to spread out the fish with few buckets down stream. The officers were not very happy with how much time that was taking. They seemed rushed, like they needed to empty the truck as soon as possible.

Pretty common in my experiences. They are rushed. They have to stock X amount of water before the day is through. More stops, longer stops, etc., just makes more work for them. They're workers, and don't give a rats arse about creating the optimal fishing experience for as many people as possible.

I can understand that there will always be this trade-off. Employees want to get the job done with as little work as possible. It's the job of the employers (managers) to pressure for the opposite.

The problem arises when it seems to be an intentional management decision to concentrate fish. Because, yes, concentrations of fish result in higher catch/harvest rates. As long as maximizing harvest per fish stocked is a goal, this will be the case. It shouldn't be the goal.

I agree, stocking is now done with fewer drops and fewer stocking dates, thus concentrating the fish which leads to crowding, or skunking by anglers fishing where no stocking has occurred, as well as a shorter season overall.

I really don't blame the workers, for the most part. The budget crunch for the PFBC has forced the stocking schedules to decrease the number of trips and stock more streams on each trip to control costs by decreasing fuel usage and labor.

As far as an "intentional management decision to concentrate fish...maximizing harvest per fish stocked is a goal".....I'm not sure if that's the case. It seems that way at times. I would guess there is some element of that in the FBC.

I read FBC Mike's every word on here. My observation, he seems to talk glowingly about where and when folks help out and take the time and effort to float-stock streams. I guess it's more up to us. The Commish doesn't have the manpower or the time to spread out the fish.

 

[TYoung]

The priority is to get done in 8 hours, so the fewer stops you make the quicker you're done. Given that, how does it make sense to stock Pine Creek from the Bellefonte hatchery, when Oswayo is much closer, and they can be stocking along the way to Pine Creek. It's a very long drive from Bellefonte Hatchery to village of Slate Run for instance. If it's about efficiency you use the least amount of time to get to the spot you're stocking.

Actually, Pine Creek is being stocked from the Tylersville hatchery this year. All of Lycoming County gets stocked from the Tylersville hatchery.