How are fiberglass rods rated

[Bamboozle]

Baron:

You don't want to start messing with silk lines, especially for warmwater BUT as an FYI:

They are not necessarily shorter than modern lines and POSITIVELY not level. In fact, the person I buy my silk lines from offers 12 different tapers in whole & half sizes and NONE are level; however, they are a LOT thinner.

If you don't do anything with your plastic lines except fish them, reel them up and put the reel away then absolutely silk is more "labor intensive." If you allow the plastic lines on your reel to dry in open air overnight and clean & dress them the next day as I do, it is almost the same in maintenance. The difference is with silk, you HAVE to.

A WF modern plastic line is fine, all you really need to know about the lines you already have is are they true to weight or heavy. You SHOULD be able to get that information from the manufacturer.

The AFMTA fly line weight number system is the weight of the first 30 feet of a fly line, minus the level tip portion that is typically about 6” long. The size is based on a RANGE of weight for each size, not necessarily a SPECIFIC weight. So for example, a WF5 line is a 5wt by virtue of the first 30 feet weighing between 134 – 146 grains.

It used to be if you bought a 5wt line, it would be smack dab in the middle of the range at 140 grains. However, MANY rods today are so stiff, they perform better with a line that is heavier than STANDARD lines or lines that are smack dab in the middle. Because of this, many line makers sell lines at the heavy end of the weight range. So if your rod calls for a 5wt line, but a 140 grain line feels too light, you can find a line that is 146 grains which is still technically a 5wt line.

OR, you can find a line that is even heavier than 146 grains and outside of the AFTMA range that is still labeled and sold as a 5wt and pretend you have a 5wt rod.

What all of this has to do with fiberglass rods is; most (but not all) glass rods respond best to the line size specified by the maker, usually written on the blank. SO if you have an existing 5wt line that is heavy or mislabeled and you try it on a 5wt glass rod and the rod feels overloaded, try a different true-to-weight line of the same size.

 

[afishinado]

Fly line weight is on a sliding scale. A little more than foot +/- of 4wt line weighs about 5 or 6 grains. So stripping in or letting out a foot of line has the same effect as changing the line weight those few grains. The rod doesn't know if your casting 29' of line vs 31'.

Don't get caught up in all of this technical stuff. A some point, with more experience you will be able to judge what line works best on a certain rod and also what works with the prevailing conditions and type of fish or fishing you plan to do.

Also double taper and weight forward have the same taper for the most part (some specialty lines are the exception). The difference between the two is WF tapers down to a thin running line to shoot on casts while the DT continues with a heavy diameter all the way back to the other end where it tapers back to a thinner line (a mirror image if you will).

Here's an excellent article by Lefty Kreh about line weight ratings and how to manipulate them to your advantage.

https://www.scientificanglers.com/choose-right-fly-line-weight/

As I said on many occasions, learn to cast well rather than buy more and more lines, rods and reels to compensate for what you perceive as shortcomings with your tackle.

 

[Baron]

Thanks all, What I did was pick up a rod and Martin reel one year ago and went fishing at lake Towhee during the Bluegill Spawn. Since then I've taken on trout, pickerel and bass and never looked back. Now that I know what I like I'm learning and asking questions so as to understand why I like it.
Haven't used it yet but today yet but I bought a cheap Eagle Claw 7/8, with 8wt line, to help me drag streamers around in lily pads and weeds. I know I like that allot. My next goal will be a finesse set-up for fishing warm water streams for panfish. In spring I'll be back to trout with both rods as needed.
So although my questions seem to be all over the place I am reading and re-reading all the links and am applying what I've learned from all of your experiences.
I am getting better at casting but I try to choose the distances more carefully as the time goes by. Making better target and distance choices helps me shoot better.
Lefty was a wealth of info.

 

[Baron]

Yesterday I bought the El Cheapo Crafted Glass Eagle Claw 7/8 and it is BEAutifullll for $35. The problem is it doesn't balance any of my reels. The balance point is 4" forward of the Half-Wells grip. This will be my Smasher and Crasher around rod. It casts well with 8wt.
Would a DT line add more weight to the but to help balance it or should I look for a heavier real and more line?

 

[lestrout]

Yo Baro - I personally think balance is over-rated when it comes to rod-reel pairing, unless you are casting big outfits all day - for stretches of 6 hours or more. But you can weight your reel/line setup with some lead core line as a sort of backing; or get lead tape. I believe golf shops are a relatively easy way (pre-'Rona, anyway) of getting small quantities of lead tape.

 

[Baron]

Les, I will fish it for a few weeks to see if I naturally adjust. I like this rods casting feel and want to make it work. Then after a bit I'll know if there continues to be a balance issue and if so will look for solutions like your tape suggestion. Shouldn't take much to get the ballance back onto the handle. Currently I find myself holding it near the keeper.

 

[jifigz]

I pretty much only fish glass......I like em. Not much help, but I like glass. Cabela's CGR in 7/8 is my go to smallie rod for many years. I love it.

 

[Baron]

That rod was on my short list. For now I bought the Eagle Claw Crafted Glass. It works well but not especially accurate (or is it me that isn't accurate, hmmmmmm.

 

[Bamboozle]

The easiest way to balance rods & reels is to make a simple list of your tackle with what reel balances what rod THE WAY YOU LIKE IT that includes the stated weight of the reel, which is the weight of the reel EMPTY. You can usually get the stated weight of a reel from the manufacturer via the instructions or a website. If not, put it on a scale that weighs in ounces and subtract an ounce or two for the line and backing.

Once you know what your reels weigh or are supposed to weigh and how they balance with what rods you have, it isn’t hard to figure out what reel weight will balance a rod that is longer, heavier or both. Surprisingly, the length of a rod has more to do with balance than the weight so you will find many similarities in reel choices for the same length rod, regardless if it is glass or graphite.

Once you build a list like this, you can shop for reels more effectively by comparing reel weight and capacity versus the subjective opinions of other anglers by asking “what reel for this rod.” Even if you decide to add weight to a reel that is too light, you will know HOW MUCH weight to add, IF you have a list and know what your reel weighs in regards to the rod you are trying to balance.

It shouldn’t surprise you that I have a list of every rod I own, what it is made of, the length, & line weight (NOT the rod weight) and what reel I paired with it along with the reel’s weight, diameter & capacity. When I get a new rod and wonder what reel to use with it, I just look at similar rods on the list and in an instant; I know what reel will balance it the way I like.

The list never fails me.

 

[Baron]

While that is helpful info, thanks, the list is going to be slow in coming.
At this point I only have three reels (if that is what you'd call them). They are the inexpensive Martins 5/6 ($13 ea). Then an old Wye. Maybe I can borrow my brothers reloading scale for weighing them. I only have two rods and they are very different in weight but they both get a Martin for now.
Do you sell copies of your list, lol? ;-)

Bamboozle wrote:
The easiest way to balance rods & reels is to make a simple list of your tackle with what reel balances what rod THE WAY YOU LIKE IT that includes the stated weight of the reel, which is the weight of the reel EMPTY. You can usually get the stated weight of a reel from the manufacturer via the instructions or a website. If not, put it on a scale that weighs in ounces and subtract an ounce or two for the line and backing.

Once you know what your reels weigh or are supposed to weigh and how they balance with what rods you have, it isn’t hard to figure out what reel weight will balance a rod that is longer, heavier or both. Surprisingly, the length of a rod has more to do with balance than the weight so you will find many similarities in reel choices for the same length rod, regardless if it is glass or graphite.

Once you build a list like this, you can shop for reels more effectively by comparing reel weight and capacity versus the subjective opinions of other anglers by asking “what reel for this rod.” Even if you decide to add weight to a reel that is too light, you will know HOW MUCH weight to add, IF you have a list and know what your reel weighs in regards to the rod you are trying to balance.

It shouldn’t surprise you that I have a list of every rod I own, what it is made of, the length, & line weight (NOT the rod weight) and what reel I paired with it along with the reel’s weight, diameter & capacity. When I get a new rod and wonder what reel to use with it, I just look at similar rods on the list and in an instant; I know what reel will balance it the way I like.

The list never fails me.

 

[Tups]

Baron. The old Martin reels are very good. I prefer the models with the coil spring adjustable click pawl such as model 67. Also have a simple click pawl model 63 “tuna can” for lighter applications. If you need something a bit heavier try a vintage USA made Pflueger Medalist 1495 1/2. Has great line capacity for a 7 or 8 wt with 100 yards backing.

 

[Baron]

hey Tups!

I have two reels on my short list for 5/6 weight setups. Smitten with the Battenkill that is #one. Also as a backup the Medalist 7/8 which will also be for salt water. I'll file this for later use and appreciate your faith in the phfueger. I really like their Trion and President series spinning reels and hope to have a medalist someday soon.

 

[Tups]

Baron. Guys who fish the medalists a lot much prefer the USA made ones. Or the Made in Japan models. The newer China made ones are made of cheaper materials. That’s what I hear.
The Pflueger made Orvis Battenkill From the 1960s and 70s are excellent. I have a 5/6 model which is primo.
Best bang for the buck is the Martin Classic made in USA from 1980s. Model MC 78 would fit your bill. Plenty of capacity and rim control. One on auction site now with one bid of ten bucks.

 

[Tups]

I should add that I don’t do any salt fishing so I don’t know how these would hold up. Someone mentioned the Valentine reel. I think those are great in the salt but may be a bit pricey. But you get what you pay for with that maker. No longer in business.

 

[Baron]

Tups wrote:
Baron. Guys who fish the medalists a lot much prefer the USA made ones. Or the Made in Japan models. The newer China made ones are made of cheaper materials. That’s what I hear.
The Pflueger made Orvis Battenkill From the 1960s and 70s are excellent. I have a 5/6 model which is primo.
Best bang for the buck is the Martin Classic made in USA from 1980s. Model MC 78 would fit your bill. Plenty of capacity and rim control. One on auction site now with one bid of ten bucks.

I like the Martins. I prefer the Pflueger over the Martin. The Martin you mention will forever remind me of the Martin Caddis 5/6 I'm using now. Once I upgrade I want significant evidence in the 'touch and feel departments' to indicate that I've upgraded.
I almost feel guilty with wanting to leave these cheap martins behind as they do what I need them to do very well........they hold my line.

 

[Tups]

Baron. No disrespect to the Martin Caddis Creek (I have never used one), but I can say with certainty that the Martin Classic MC would be a substantial improvement in the touch and feel department. Fit and finish is much better and you get the unparalleled Martin adjustable coil spring check as opposed to the unidimensional click mechanism Of the Caddis.

 

[Baron]

Yes indeed, I agree. I still like the pflueger better as it has a more rugged following as I see it. I'm tough on gear at this point. not so much in the use but more so in the transportation. You can see my concern in some previous posts. These stupid little Caddis are almost indestructible. Its uncanny. But they are noisy, clanky, immature looking and I could go on. But they work day after day after day. As funds allow I'll be adding some of the cool items like you mention. I also have an interest in some of the Young models. for open water a multiplier may also work but maybe they are more or less a novelty item like many of the Auto's.
Hang around a bit, and like others keep chipping at my rough edges and you'll see me grow in knowledge and in practice.

Tups wrote:
Baron. No disrespect to the Martin Caddis Creek (I have never used one), but I can say with certainty that the Martin Classic MC would be a substantial improvement in the touch and feel department. Fit and finish is much better and you get the unparalleled Martin adjustable coil spring check as opposed to the unidimensional click mechanism Of the Caddis.