Hooked jaw

[Bruno]

I learn better by example and found this site to be very helpful. I think it was like 20 bucks to join. http://rotaryflytying.com

It is about the same as buying a book.

 

[mute]

THanks for all the advice, and thanks mattmask, i was focusing on them boys today for about 3 hours, probably threw 30 diff flies, nothing but a few double looks.

Ok so ill buy it all seperate. In that sense, lets list everything i should get. And for material wise, what should i be getting to tie some winter flies that i couldf be fishing now.(small midges, eggs, etc)

Vice

Hackle Pliers

hair stacker

Dubbing needle/bodkin

thread bobbins

bobbin threader

Whip Finisher

some head cement

bunch of different thread

wiring

beads

What else am i missing and for winter/midge flies what materials should i pick up

 

[jayL]

Perhaps, get some antron yarn for midge wings.

Grab some heavy wire hooks and tiny curved midge hooks and you can tie a year's supply of zebra midge variants and globugs and eggs.

 

[JackM]

Are you trying to save money? If so, get:

-One cheap Bobbin
-Black thread and light tan thread (tan for light flies)
- A cheap whip finisher
- A cheap pair of scissors

- get the threader if it's less than a buck; otherwise, push the thread into the bobbin and suck through the business end like a straw (Bruno taught me this).

- you should use head cement, many of us don't

- forget the hair stacker, you can buy that in the Spring

- get materials for wooly buggers, egg patterns, pheasant tail and hares ear nymphs (don't buy a mask, just get synthetic dubbing), and midges and BWOs. That will cover you until late March.

- If you don't have a vice, but one for 10-15 dollars.

If you decide you don't like fly tying, you have wasted less than $50. If you decide you like it, you can add tools, materials, etc., including a better vice if you want (I still use my Chinese AA 7 years later). The old vice could become an emergency travel vice or sell it to me when this one wears out in another 5 years.

Good luck. The upshot of my advice is to get the bare minimum, inexpensively for a few flies you know you will use soon and will likely work. If you like tying, build on your set-up, if you don't, you won't take a bath dumping the stuff on the Swap Forum.

 

[JeffK]

JackM gave you some good advice. I would go the simple route. I learned to tie back in the 1960's when there were no fly shops around and it was a do-it-yourself world. All the "fancy" tools were tough to find and each tier made do with what was lying around. It pays to be handy!

I used a Pakistani Thompson A vise knock-off for 30 years before it fell apart.

For head cement, I use clear nail polish from a dollar store. Don't really need it with a good whip finish, but if you want a shiny head nail polish does fine.

I was taught to suck the thread through the bobbin tube, but if you need a threader get a dental floss threader from a drug store/supermarket

A spent shotgun shell makes a decent hair stacker.

For decades I only had two colors of thread - black and gray for light flies. The tan would do fine for light flies. I broke the pattern when I got red thread to tie Silver Doctors (I love those gaudy old flies) and before you know it I had a box full of various threads. I'm not sure the flies work better than when I stuck to black and gray.

You can whip finish by hand, but it takes a little practice. Nobody used whip finishers when I was younger. Another way is to turn a bunch of half hitches over the eye just by twisting loops between your thumb and forefinger, sliding them over the eye, and pulling tight. Half hitches aren't such a good knot and you will need head cement to make them reliable.

These days most people think the do-it-yourself stuff is a lot of trouble and prefer buying a bunch of cool tools. I have collected plenty of tools over the years and they are helpful, but I probably get more enjoyment out of improvising. And if you learn to improvise you will never be stopped dead because you don't have some special tool.

 

[sandfly]

Take the class at French Creek, if Jack Mickieviz is teaching you'll learn alot...the man has knowledge unlike any one I know..His teaching techniques cant be beat... Orvis has a tool kit (clearwater) thats around $30.00 and has some very nice tools, everything you'll need.. I taught their class for 3 years..

 

[tomgamber]

I would only argue one thing from Jack's comments. While you don;t need ot spend a fortune, make sure you get a decent scissors...sharp if nothing else. My tying and flies improved greatly by having a sharp, sharp scissors. nearly everything else you could go budget on. I do think you could save some money by buying your tools in a kit, either like the one I posted ot the one sandfly just mentioned. Have a shop owner show you a couple of different whip finnishers and if he has a desk set up, see which ones you can actually make function. If you have trouble with the whip finnisher at first, the opposite end of most bodkins make a great half hitch tool.

 

[fly_flinger]

I took classes from FCO. Jack kinda works at his own pace but will eventually get back to you. Some might not know, but he helped develope one of the Renzetti vices. The one he uses in class is the 2nd one ever made. Even says so on the bottom. He is very knowledgible and can teach you more than just how to tie. I recommend the class to anyone getting started.

 

[mediclimber]

If I were you I'd add Floss to the list and look for the Tungsten Beads if possible. They really help get those tiny flies down quicker.

 

[FarmerDave]

I wil argue one other thing that Jack said. Don't get a cheap bobbin (depending on what he meant by cheap). the one that came with my kit was junk, and would cut the thread. Get a decent one preferably with a ceramic insert. They still are fairly "cheap."

As far as my earlyier message. i was talking about kits with materials when i said don't buy a kit. As JeffK pointed out, noting more frustrating than trying to tie flies with poor quality materials, plus when you figure out what you will actually use, you aren't saving anything. However, i wouldn't buy a "tool kit" either. I haven't seen one that has all the tools that i like, and most contain tools that I don't like.

If you go to a fly shop, they have lots of tools, and usually they have somebody who can show you how to use them. Take whip finishers. There are many differint types. Some i like, some I don't. You can pick out the one you like ater they show you how to use them.

My vise is a Cabela's Master Vise. I think it came with three different heads. It works fine for about 30 bucks. Nothing fancy, but it holds the hook. They have feedback at Cabela's web site. Some feedback was poor, some good, some average. All I can say is it works fine for the money. However, I would say the really cheap ones are a waste of time and money. There are certainly much better vises than the one I have, and someday i will upgrade, but for a beginner and for the simpler flies that I tie, the Cabela's works fine.

Definitely get good scissors, and you can't have too many different ones IMHO.

Also Mute, you asked what materials should you buy. It depends on what you want to tie first. Jack gave good advice IMO.

If you are going to buy just one neck (because they are so expensive) I'd get grizzly because it looks the buggiest (to me). You can ften substitute it for others in a pinch. Trout can't read recipes. You can even tie Adams without the brown and they look fine. I haven't been sued by a trout yet for leaving out the brown. Here is another idea. sometimes you can buy two halfs in two different colors for aout the same price. Or, you can go halves with someone else, and buy two and split them down the middle.

For larger dries (size 14 and larger), the Saddle works fine IMHO, and is easy to work with. They are softer, but work for me. Saves some money.

Gotta go.

Great discussion.

 

[mattmask]

Mute, were there still a bunch of bows in that hole with the pallies?

 

[Stone_Fly]

I'm not seeing guys saying not to but a kit, they are saying don't buy the materials that way.
My first kit only included tools, purchased through Cabelas. I used it for a few years and as I busted or wanted to upgrade tools I then went and purchased new tools, eventually upgrading my vise too. As for materials I went and bought 3 high quality Metz Necks, and got a kit of thread and a kit of dubbing. I use hare ear dubbing, that's the brand name and now use uni thread, but I still have some of the original thread from a thread kit I bought. I've been tying for quite a few years, more than I care to post. I have a friend who is very skilled at tying and he taught me the basics, and that was a huge help. I don't think I'd be tying if I hadn't had him to teach me.
As for where to start, try the simple patterns first like a gold ribbed hare’s ear nymph or a peasant tail nymph, both use only a minimum of materials. In fact a pheasant tail nymph only uses pheasant tail if it is tied correctly. The GRHE uses only 2 types of material hare’s ear dubbing and a turkey feather for the wing case. Once you master these 2 flies by tying about 50 of them then go on to a woolly bugger which is a fairly easy fly with a minimum of materials. Marabou, hackle, and body yarn or some other body material. And if you like, add some crystal flash.
Once you master the simple patterns then go on to more difficult ties.

 

[Bruno]

Do not forget to look around the house for materials as well. I was thinking about this last night when i was finishing up my flies for the bugger swap. I was considering hosting a swap that would consist of flies tied from household items. Only the hook and thread could be not a found item.

Here is a brief list of materials that I have "found"

1. Cheap stolen motel blanket- brown = Furry foam

2. Dryer lint mixed with pet hair = dubbing. It helps if you have several pets in the house.

3. I use dental floss all the time for prince nymph wings and racing stripes on my flies

4. Found feathers- i got lots of flies that have goose or pigeon feathers as wing cases

5. Get a good set of sharpie markers. If ya need a particular color, well start coloring

Look around. It's supposed to be fun.

 

[jayL]

lol. The swaps are getting out of hand, but I am most definitely in for the house materials swap. The only problem is getting enough materials to tie an entire dozen.

 

[tomgamber]

Bruno wrote:
Do not forget to look around the house for materials as well. I was thinking about this last night when i was finishing up my flies for the bugger swap. I was considering hosting a swap that would consist of flies tied from household items. Only the hook and thread could be not a found item.

Here is a brief list of materials that I have "found"

1. Cheap stolen motel blanket- brown = Furry foam

2. Dryer lint mixed with pet hair = dubbing. It helps if you have several pets in the house.

3. I use dental floss all the time for prince nymph wings and racing stripes on my flies

4. Found feathers- i got lots of flies that have goose or pigeon feathers as wing cases

5. Get a good set of sharpie markers. If ya need a particular color, well start coloring

Look around. It's supposed to be fun.

Bruno you are a true urban angler..and a distinguished graduate of the JackM school of thrift... :lol: :lol:

 

[JackM]

When you go visiting during the Holidays, don't overlook the bright shiny materials on your neighbors' and relatives' decorations. I don't think they'll miss a few strands of tinsel here and there....

 

[FarmerDave]

:lol: Jack. :lol: