Elsie 2/0

[gfen]

Raphael, no.
Basquiat, yes.

You can also do only so much with a shopping list, yet we've bound and sold writers' letters, personal journals, and other sundries.

I suspect that my gold ribbed hare's ears are much less perfect than eunonandonandon's, and i'd like to know much nicer i could make them if i had the ability to push my tying to the point he's taken his.

I suspect if I sat down with the intent of making shadowbox quality GRHE's that his and mine would be indistinguishable but for personal style.

 

[jeremymcon]

Actually, I would be interested to see any flies you actually fish with as well, eunan. I would bet your pheasant tail nymphs look better than mine do. Lol. Though I'd also bet that if you ever tied a green weenie, mine would look just as good as yours. ;-)

I also like your the streamers and salmon flies and such that you've been posting. I find them interesting, and I'm glad you are helping to carry on the tradition of tying this style of fly. I like that fly fishing doesn't necessarily have to be only about who can catch the most/largest fish.

 

[blueheron]

Two lumps of dryer lint lashed to a hook by different sets of hands would still be two lumps of dryer lint and have little reason to be hung on a wall, or wherever it is one displays their stuff. Leave him be.

 

[McSneek]

I look forward to every one of Eunan's flies that he posts on here. They are works of art. I am pretty sure he's quite capable of a pheasant tail or hare's ear and I don't really need to see one.

Keep them coming Eunan.

 

[JackM]

Not everyone wants to see him tie fishable flies. Some of us want to and/or have him tell us whether any of these works of art are fishable. I have never cast these types of flies to trout or salmon. Do they work or are they just for the shadow box? I think he has answered this with the latter.

Since this is a fly tying forum, he is welcome to post artistic flies regardless of fishability. I don't see anything wrong about the questions we are asking. I am not trying to offend anyone, just making the conversation expand, rather than just having these threads be a vehicle for displaying one's personal art. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[gfen]

-shrug- I'm far more interested in learning something useful, like how people who are highly accomplished in intricate works of art utilize these skills in their every day use.

This means that his gold ribbed hare's ear will likely have proportions I care to look at, ribbing material that might differ from mine, certainly wings that are different (mine are all folded quarter secondary slip, on his fishing flies or does he use quill slips, up or down, etc etc etc), beards or full hackles, etc.

Something that's book perfect is nice, and who doesn't apprechiate it, but in the end I can open any number of books made over the last 160 years to see that.

As to two lumps of dryer lint, I suspect his every day lint fly is far nicer than mine.

As "Pick something and I'll tie it," well, I have Google and chances are the Simpsons already did it.

 

[Mountainbrookie]

JackM wrote:
Not everyone wants to see him tie fishable flies. Some of us want to and/or have him tell us whether any of these works of art are fishable. I have never cast these types of flies to trout or salmon. Do they work or are they just for the shadow box? I think he has answered this with the latter..

What leads you to believe that these flies are not fishable? Of course they are, that's what the original patterns were intended to do. Along the way tiers have of course tried to perfect them in terms of appearance and it comes down to whether you want to risk something you put so much effort into as opposed to whether or not the flies are fishable.

 

[JackM]

My only interest in this convo is to find out if he or anyone else fishes these flies. I could try to tie facsimiles and see for myself, but I don't have the patience.

 

[eunanhendron]

while i personally dont fish these atlantic salmon flies, there is a large contingent of canadian and european fishermen who use these flies exclusively and very successfully for atlantic salmon.

For the most part they tie their flies on eyed hooks, often double hooks, as fishing regulations permit their use.
If anyone is interested, the classic fly tying forum has an abundant resource of tyers who fish these flies on regular basis.

Of course, the flies were developed for fishing, and tied with attention to detail, but with no vise and modern tools we use today. In those days it was 'fly tying' today is very assisted.

 

[JackM]

I have always held to the belief that trout are dumb and exact replicas of traditional flies was an unnecessary expense. So, an iron blue dun with, say, brown hen hackle tails was always satisfactory. So, before I buy $600 of material to match the pattern, rather than the hatch, I was wondering if anyone (OP or others) had experience pointing to the need to tie the pattern-perfect unnatural?

 

[eunanhendron]

i always use subs if i dont have something on hand - rabbit fur instead of muskrat....goose quill instead of duck, goose shoulder instead of swan.
Provided the color is correct, or as close as makes no difference to my eye, then i'm happy.
Bear in mind, in years past, feathers were purchased 'as is' i.e. as they came from the bird, and often dyed by the tyers.
There is a great chapter in Malone's Book - Irish Trout and Salmon Flies, which gives the materials used to dye the necessary colors. As you can imagine, there was quite a variation.

If you look at Carrie Stevens Streamers, she only had the materials made available to her, and often the range of colors between flies was dramatic. In Hilyards book there is page of Gray Ghosts, with few (if any) having the same color wing.

For display flies, atlantic salmon flies and Rangeley streamers, I try to use the exact material specified in the pattern. however, that is not always financially attainable, in the case of Indian crow, Blue Chatterer and Toucan, where i use very reasonable subs.

 

[JackM]

There is imitative art and original art. Both have their place in the realm of what is pleasant to look at. Have you seen my iron blue dun wet with brown hen-hackle tail?

 

[eunanhendron]

aint seen it.

 

[blueheron]

There is no need to tie traditional patterns with the indicated original materials as the source tyers are long gone and the original patterns are variations , you can be sure, of what started out in some fisherman's mind. I fish for Atlantics in the fall, stockers but salmon all the same, and catch them on streamers . They are particular as to what they eat but they eat my sports jackets as well as Eunan's tuxedos and down to the shorts and a tshirt of a bugger. It's presentation and time of day, not florican bustard and Andean condor primary feathers that determine success. Ive seen them eat Alder flies tied dry, but that's another kettle of fish.(insert emoticon)

 

[Mountainbrookie]

JackM wrote:
I have always held to the belief that trout are dumb and exact replicas of traditional flies was an unnecessary expense.

If you ascertain that trout are dumb then why question whether or not these flies are fishable? :lol:

 

[joebamboo]

Without a doubt, Eunanhendron is very talented. However, when I I look at the Fly Tying section, I expect to see photos and/or tying instructions for "fishable" flies.

Perhaps a section for DESIGNER Flies would be better suited for those so inclined.

 

[FrequentTyer]

joebamboo wrote:
Without a doubt, Eunanhendron is very talented. However, when I I look at the Fly Tying section, I expect to see photos and/or tying instructions for "fishable" flies.

Perhaps a section for DESIGNER Flies would be better suited for those so inclined.

This is taking an odd turn. I don't fish streamers, therefor any streamer thread would not fit the "fishable" category according to my expectations. Should I request a separate section for streamer flies? Posts on classic patterns generate plenty of interest and relevant comments (present thread excluded). As in pretty much every aspect of adult life, if you don't like what you see then go look at something else.
And in case you somehow missed it, Eunan's flies are perfectly capable of catching fish.

 

[Fishidiot]

joebamboo wrote:
Without a doubt, Eunanhendron is very talented. However, when I I look at the Fly Tying section, I expect to see photos and/or tying instructions for "fishable" flies.
Perhaps a section for DESIGNER Flies would be better suited for those so inclined.

Understandable. However, there are indeed many such threads with step by step directions for "fishable" flies. It would be impossible to separate designer flies from practical ones. A big part of the fly tying hobby is artistic and creative and such flies are a good fit with the Fly Tying forum. As I've argued many times before, tying artistic or unconventional flies will make one a better tyer all around and provide insight into techniques that can then be used for more conventional flies being tied for the fly box rather than the shadowbox.

 

[sandfly]

when i do married wing flys they go in a fly box to be used. Not as nice as Eunan"s though.

 

[jdaddy]

Fishidiot wrote:

joebamboo wrote:
Without a doubt, Eunanhendron is very talented. However, when I I look at the Fly Tying section, I expect to see photos and/or tying instructions for "fishable" flies.
Perhaps a section for DESIGNER Flies would be better suited for those so inclined.

Understandable. However, there are indeed many such threads with step by step directions for "fishable" flies. It would be impossible to separate designer flies from practical ones. A big part of the fly tying hobby is artistic and creative and such flies are a good fit with the Fly Tying forum. As I've argued many times before, tying artistic or unconventional flies will make one a better tyer all around and provide insight into techniques that can then be used for more conventional flies being tied for the fly box rather than the shadowbox.

I think you are a prime example of the simple question Gary was asking. Your "artistic" flies are works of art that are often incorporated into print/framed art. Your "daily beaters" may not be tied to that level, however that ability and high quality certainly result in above average flies in your personal box (based upon casual posts of flies that you posted in response others).