Ditch at Big Spring Creek, Cumberland County Pa

They change with every generation. The Greatest Show on Earth, by Richard Dawkins, explains this well.
 
Salvelinusfontinalis, completely wrong. Ireland is a place, red hair freckles etc are the result of gene expression. There is no such thing as "Irish genetics", only people that are from Ireland. Prefect example, if you have a black person that is born in Ireland, that individual is Irish. Even those with a long lineage who is still living in Ireland, is Irish, but go back far enough and an ancestor is probably a fossil in the African rift valley.

Spoiler alert: cabbages are our distant cousins.
 
Incorrect. Rb1 is 70 times stronger in people of Celtic origin.

By your logic there are no loch leven genetics in browns either, that is a place andthere would be no such thing as loch leven genetics.

I get what you are tying to say, but every thing I've seen in genetics says otherwise.
 
Lol, there is no Celtic origin, bc Celts came from elsewhere https://owlcation.com/stem/Irish-Blood-Genetic-Identity
 
And yet you can genetically test with in a 99.99 accuracy and tell if a person has those genetics. So much so you can tell the percentages or linage at each branch of their family tree...

We ain't one big race yet.
 
Which means what, especially in regard to trout?

There isn't any magical strain of brown trout. Bc wild fish are not selectively bred by us, the genes that are best suited for the conditions will express themselves and outcompete the lesser genes.
 
There isn't any magical strain of brown trout. Bc wild fish are not selectively bred by us, the genes that are best suited for the conditions will express themselves and outcompete the lesser genes.
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Had to go through my posts to see if I claimed a magical strain of brown trout, I did not.

What do I mean?

Some think there are Loch Leven or German brown trout strains in the wild, but only a brown trout born in Loch Leven, is a Loch Leven brown trout.
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Conditions suited best for cetain genes will express themselves and out compete lesser genes.....

So if loch leven genes do that in a wild PA stream, but are no longer loch leven genes simply based on location?

This is the part I disagree with. Perhaps a better question is, what do you mean? Maybe im dumb but I ain't following that logic.
 
Bc for some reason people want to believe that every large brown, or one with a sparse spot pattern want to call it Loch Leven for some reason.

Until a scientist isolates a specific "Loch Leven" gene that isn't found in other brown trout, it's just a place. With how long browns have been stocked and spread in the US, the idea that a "pure strain" exists is laughable. Even F1s wouldn't be Loch Leven if not hatched and raised in Loch Leven.
 
Ok now I get you. Sorry wasn't trying to argue it anything just understand.
 
No prob man. Havent seen you in awhile. Hope you've been getting out.
 
No doubt.
You ever get them down midging?

Loved that brown you caught with Eric R awhile back.
I've had a great year for large trout myself.

Hey on a side note. In a land far away you and I had a similar debate on fish passage ways and the letort.
The best thing was you spotburning your favorite rotisserie chicken joint.
Very good thanks.

We should hook up and toss meat at beasts sometime soon.
 
How do you explain how a portrait on the wall of a hunting lodge that is run by the Head of Clan Macdonald looks like my brother, when that branch of the family was separated by hundreds of years and many generations? The gens have been there for centuries.
 
Chaz wrote:
They really should restore the flow of the creek by removing the dam at the end of the ditch. All it does is block fish movement and create a fake stream environment. I realize that I may be the only person in the universe that feels this way, but it's so un-natural I can't stand the way it looks.
As for spawning habitat it'll be just fine.
I looked at the flows and the only time there is an obvious change in flows was on August 17, probably the day they did the survey. That doesn't rule out another impact, it's just the most obvious.
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Chaz, add me as the second person in the universe who feels the way you do.
 
SteveG wrote:
Bc for some reason people want to believe that every large brown, or one with a sparse spot pattern want to call it Loch Leven for some reason.

Sal wrote:
Loved that brown you caught with Eric R awhile back.
I've had a great year for large trout myself.

Should I feel called out?

No-one is calling the sparsely spotted silvery brown trout of the Cumberland Valley pure strain Loch Leven. They demonstrate Loch Leven characteristics in movement and appearance. If it looks like a duck and swims like a duck, it's a duck. But, with that said I would never attempt to argue genetics. I could spend the rest of my life trying to prove that one and fail. While it is possible through different spawning times and locations to retain separation. Not interested in that conversation either. I can say that these Brown Trout are an example of an early planting that favored the Loch Leven strain most likely brought in milk cans on the train as fingerlings that have had the luxury of time to adapt to the watershed or honed by natural selection to what they are today and they have extreme value to the angler. To this point they have been largely ignored and dismissed as transient. They demonstrate the greatest genetic diversity and fecundity. They have created the legends and the fame and yet can to this day be caught and killed. I want to protect them.
 
Eric,

I agree with you and can think of 4 other waterways right off the top of my head where the same looking / same acting strain can be found.

If there has been a very small population moving through our rivers / streams for 100-150 years, it's truly amazing that they survived or even spawned a new generation.
 
I think the ditch at least closest to the spring hole down to where the tree is in the middle, could sure lose some vegetation. When I started fishing the ditch the floor was gravel and the brookies could spawn. Now there is all but zero area for them. Last time I was there during the spawn, I saw a hundred brookies on one bed, the only bed.
 
Should I feel called out?
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No. Why would you? I have never challenged, put you on blast or said anything negative about you in my life.
You?
 
Nah Sal, We're good. Steve G is a good friend and I think he poked me there and I'm more than fine with it. We have fun with this topic and push each other. That was one heck of an experience that day. Seeing that bull charge and munch Steve's streamer off the front of the boat. Great day. I haven't been on the Forum for a long time and for the most part had forgotten about it until I was told about this thread. I steer away a bit because I don't want to put someone in this position. I guess I am a plain speaker and can be passionate and put people off in this form of communication. When you can't see someones eyes and expressions it's so easy to give the wrong impression with text only communication.
 
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