Beginner Fly Tying Kit - Looking for input

[steveo27]

Hello all,

Haven't been on here in a few months, but I know I can always trust the input and advice given here.

I am looking to start tying my own flies over the winter.

I am looking for a nice introductory/beginners fly tying set up. I mainly fish for trout and pan fish with my fly rod and I'm interested in tying flies for said fish.

Cabela's seems to carry some what look to be decent kits that get pretty good reviews. But thats all I really know about them.

I was looking for some real world input on what to look for or suggestions.

Thanks

 

[AkDan76]

things have gotten better over the years since I began. Look for a fly specific kit. Meaning one that has a list of flies you can tie with it from start to finish with the materials provided. Not a cheap kit that has a bunch of 'stuff' that you can't really tie anything with. don't buy a cheap kit! Or you'll end up replacing most of the tools and the materials you'll throw away! Or buy one that has quality tools as I posted below, you'll still need materials to finish it out.

Most kits suffer from poor quality tools and just the same poor quality materials. Lower end scissors, bobbins, vises. They work but you'll likely end up replacing some or all of them depending on how into it you get. If I sound like I'm repeating myself I am for a reason! To many of us were suckered into buying junk. I still 20+ years later have some of that junk. I use the cheapo scissors for cutting wire when I'm too lazy to helicopter it off lol. The rest I threw in the trash!



Learn the process's than move on to a new bug. Start simple, say a illiamna pinky (chenille egg pattern 1 material fly), to a salcha pink (same egg pattern with a turn or two of white hackle up front) to say a bead head thread zebra midge for fly another 2 step fly. Griffiths for fly 4 which will teach you to palmer hackle, something you already had a taste of with the salcha pink. From the Griffiths you can add a tail and make a wooly bugger on a bigger hook. Than jump to the PT. Base your flies using one to build to another fly with another step, learning the process and proportions. Eventually you'll pick a fly and just tie it. Use the right materials and think about proportions. Don't worry about size right out of the gate, tie a little bigger...panfish don't care! And stop before you think you need to, IE DONT crowd the eye LOL!

Here's an ok kit. nothing fancy and it wont break the bank.

http://www.fishusa.com/Product/Wapsi-Deluxe-Fly-Tying-Starter-Kit

A little nicer kit with a dvd
http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/fly-tying-kits/620806.aspx

Even better tools kit but you'll need more materials which is an easy find (cabelas has the jack dennis beginners kit (no tools) with dvd for another 89 bucks. You likely wont be upgrading the tools in this kit very soon. The vise is a better low end vise with a giant range of hook holding capacity!
http://www.schmidtoutfitters.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=983

For learning to tie youtube is your friend these days! Heaven forbid we buy books LOL! Honestly its pretty dang awesome watching the greats bust out flies....it really is a great thing! Its just too easy to see someone tie flies vs read, but lord knows I have an overflowing library.

You tube these guys, Davie Mcphail, Hans Weilemann, tightlinevideo, Johnny Utah, intheriffle and a pile of other great tiers on youtube right now. It's a great time to learn to be a fly tier! I believe one of them are on this site as well (intheriffle? and johnny Utah?) cant remember which one they were!

This one should be in All PA' guys library. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngSraA6whFM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWoGLzyyzdc

If you have a shop nearby, stop in and see what they carry. Some places make fly specific packages. Look at the make of tools. Are they quality scissors that fit your hands? Ceramic bobbin with a lifetime warranty? Does it come with a half hitch tool or matarelli whip finisher. Word of advice, buy the whip finisher but find someone who knows how to use it. They are FAST and good! But can be frustrating at first. I like the full rotary some guys prefer to turn them by hand or do a full whip by hand.

 

[MKern]

You are definitely better off piecing your own kit together. Select a vise, tools, and materials base off your budget. And only get materials you know go to the patterns you wish to tie.

I think $20 - $25 for a starter vise isn't a bad idea. You will get years and a couple thousand flies from it. I still use mine on occasion.

But as mentioned above, most kits are junky and a lot of us have been burnt by them.

 

[poopdeck]

I agree with piecing it together yourself. Ill give you another perspective from a guy who does not tie for show or for production. I simply tie for myself and a few friends who do not carry packs and packs of flies that are rarely if ever used. I do not care if I tie one fly in a minute, one an hour or one all night.

I see no need to buy expensive "tools" outside the vise although a cheap vise will give you years of service. My first vise was a Thompson that is over 20 years old and is still in use although I did get another vise last year.

For the rest of the tools I simply buy terra ceramic bobbins at about 5 bucks a piece. They don't break or fray the thread and that's all you need. I would not buy a bobbin unless it was ceramic. I have multible bobbins so my thread colors are always at the ready. A bodkin can be made from stuff you already have around the house. I have cheap hackle pliers that work just fine. My scissors are ok but I find the cheap ones just fine as well. My whip finisher is also a terra that cost around 5 bucks. Outside my vice i probably have 50 bucks invested in 5 bobbins and everything else. Works great with not one problem with them wearing out or breaking.

I see no reason to spend lots of money on expensive "tools" unless you are production tying or possibly you simply enjoy the finer things in life.

Start with a few patterns and get the materials you need just for those patterns. The material will start piling up soon enough. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[Jake41]

Piece it together. Invest in a good ($150.00 approx) vice and some good scissors and a couple ceramic bobbins. If you can attend the fly fishing show with someone who has some tying knowledge you will save a lot of time and money.

 

[AkDan76]

man what I typed about fly steps made no sense....that's what I get for typing while exhausted from dragging a tank out of a lake. Holy moly haha! I swear I can count to 4 at least..after that, well the army made us rinse and repeat...oh well .

As for tools....I guess what I'm getting at is don't buy junk. Ceramic anything is better than non in bobbins. I prefer good scissors, they'll run you 12-20 bucks. A bodkin you can make yourself with a wine cork and a needle, one fine sharp one and one kinda bigger one, heck a finishing nail would work as well. I really do like the matarelli whip finisher...but like mentioned is not needed though I'd learn how to whip by hand at some point, the tool is faster than anything you'll do by hand! a double/triple half hitch works just as well. Even when it comes to a vise, I'd opt to stay away from a low end Thompson. I think many of us started on one. There is better low end vises on the market, back before pooters, the only thing we'd see where thompsons where I grew up. The better stuff was many bucks out of my price range. That vise lead to many hours of frustration lol. You don't need a pile of tools but what I'd buy I'd opt to spend a little more and get better gear once! You can hold the hook by hand if you wanted! google it, it can and does happen still to this day! I'd end up in the ER if I tried lol.

 

[steveo27]

Thanks for all the help guys, much appreciated.

I think I am going to piece together a "kit" instead of buying one.

Here is a list of the tools I came up with -

FLY TYING TOOLS -

- Vice
- Bobbins
- Bobbin threader
- Bodkin
- Hackle pliers
- Hair stacker
- Half hitch tool
- Whip finisher
- Scissors
- Tweezers
- Head cement

Does this seem like a pretty good list of tools?

I found some info on a DIY bodkin, DIY bobbin threader, and DIY hair stacker which seem pretty simple and interesting.

Poopdeck, thanks for the suggestions. I plan on tying for my self, my old lady, and maybe a friend or 2 that I fish with, but thats about it.

I checked out the Terra stuff and I really like the price point of their products.


Cheers

 

[djs12354]

Steve

Add some type of fine tooth comb for cleaning under-fur from hair.

I made mine from an old barber style comb.

 

[poopdeck]

Drop the tweezers and the half hitch tool. A half hitch is a simple twist of the thread and it does not require a tool to do it. Easy to make if you really want one.

Terra tools work great but stay away from their vises. The jaws are not the best. You will be cranking out flies for three in no time.

 

[PennKev]

Jake41 wrote:
Piece it together. Invest in a good ($150.00 approx) vice and some good scissors and a couple ceramic bobbins. If you can attend the fly fishing show with someone who has some tying knowledge you will save a lot of time and money.

^This. This. This.

The only thing I will add is that the Griffin Odyssey Spider is a great vise for under $100.

Ok, I lied, I will add one more thing. Make a list of the flies *YOU* want to tie and research the necessary materials. Purchase accordingly. Even if you have an expert helping you choose materials, they will likely make recommendations based on what *THEY* tie.

Kev

 

[pro4mance]

There is a link to a vise shootout in the GEAR TALK forum, good info there.
pick a pattern or 2 and buy those materials

 

[MKern]

You don't really need a bodkin, a sewing needle works fine.

A bobbin threaded can be easily be replaced by starting the thread in the bobbin and sucking the thread out.

Head cement can be subbed out by Sally Hanson Hard As Nails.

Tying a half hitch is really easy and I never use on. If you do buy a bodkin, most have a half hitch tool on the back. If you are dead-set on having a half hitch tool, push the ink tube out of a bid pen. The plastic pen is now you half hitch tool.

Only buy a hair stacker if you plan on tying with hair. Empty shot gun shell will work too.

Tweezer are definitely not needed.

Good scissors are a must. Not saying to need $40 scissors, but don't pick up a pair from the beauty isle of Walmart. Get fly tying scissors and make sure the points cross before they close.


I would rather spend my money on better materials, an extra bobbin, or more hooks

 

[gfen]

Why are these threads a thing, why can no one operate a search engine? It's very easy.

Anyways, for $15 (on sale) you'll get everything you need to decide if this is a censor dumb word hobby or not. If it is, you're out $15. If it's not, you can replace things as you find deficiencies: Not a LMGTFY link, this time.

 

[AkDan76]

bobbin threader is a waste of money....suck it through! unless your bobbins caked in wax it works great! Think wingbone turkey call!'

I don't think I'd tell a guy to get a hair stacker right out of the gate either. You can stack with your fingers good enough for starters but honestly unless you're going after say a troth caddis you likely wont use it very often for starting out anyways. you WILL use a stacker later on more and more.

If you get a whip get the full rotary...otherwise don't buy it lol. All joking aside one or the other works fine half hitch or whip.

tweezers for?

 

[steveo27]

Thanks for all the helpful info guys.

Hair stacker - I can DIY that.
Bobbin threader - I can DIY that as well,

I think I have everything sorted out now.


Also, thanks for the heads up on the vises, Ive been watching that thread,

 

[AkDan76]

Curious have you stopped by the TCO shop in state college? Or do you have another shop near by? Get you some hands on before you go putting any $ down and pick up some hands on pointers as well.

A tip on gluing for a guy whose new to finishing knots.

A drop of super glue on the thread right before you wrap works wonders! Works well on flies that are awkward to tie off without adding a ton of bulk. The action of final few turns of the thread will activate it. Its likely you have super glue at home already. You can still add your whip/half hitch afterwards and use whatever for glue or just whip/halfhitch as added insurance and be done. I'll be up front I don't use it on a regular basis, but I have on certain patterns that were giving me fits. It works well! If you're like me though be prepared to be stuck to something LOL

For half hitches run 2 or 3 turns for one knot. 2 knots and you basically have two mini half hitches.

Also hackle pliers are not all created equal! I have 2 I come to like depending on what I'm doing but if I could only buy one I'd buy an English hackle pliers.

They have a tendency to come stiff. If you find they're too stiff you can adjust them by opening them up, and bending them in a skosh. Rinse and repeat until you get it to a more manageable tension you like.

You do want to file off the edges just to ensure there is no burrs, its quick and painless, but it really bites when you're wrapping hackle and the blasted pliers breaks it! Open them up all the way and either use the emery, a piece of 400 grit paper or something similar. Don't polish the jaws but don't leave them too rough either, you are just taking down the hard corner. Open them up and you'll see what I'm talking about. You can rough the jaws up a bit rougher than 400 grit, say 120 by giving it a swipe or two but don't over do it a little here goes a long ways! Than do the edges with 400 to knock off any burrs from manufacturing or ones you put in. It will help hold onto materials, which imho English hackle pliers don't have an issue with but some feel the need to do this.

I don't really care for the rubber jawed style hackle pliers though I do have them as a 2nd pair and I will use them at times. I have a love hate relationship with them. They work good to ok for some things and really bad for others. Where I like them is when I'm having an issue with twisting I run a rotary hackle pliers and can fix that without jacking a fly all up. I wouldn't buy one out of the gate for this purpose but you might later on down the road.

The English hackle pliers are great for saving a fly when the thread breaks!!! clip on and its going to hold right where its at.


One other note,

you'll want two hunks of foam. One to keep your tools organized and out of the way when not in use. The 2nd can be smaller, I use this for hanging flies to dry when I glue heads. Stick all of them in and get to gluing instead of gluing each one at the vise.

 

[poopdeck]

gfen wrote:
Why are these threads a thing, why can no one operate a search engine? It's very easy.

At this point this can be said for every thread. I can't understand why people toss out the "use the search feature" response.

 

[DaveKile]

Steveo27,

Great question and let me make it clear this is actually the kind of place to get the answer. There a lot of people here who do enjoy helping other people and as you can see by the the good responses. Keep your questions and comments coming. Hope you'll be able to help others out down the road yourself.

The idea of this forum is to ask questions and help others. If you don't like the question and don't want to be helpful so be it.

Dave Kile

 

[steveo27]

dkile wrote:
Steveo27,

Great question and let me make it clear this is actually the kind of place to get the answer. There a lot of people here who do enjoy helping other people and as you can see by the the good responses. Keep your questions and comments coming. Hope you'll be able to help others out down the road yourself.

The idea of this forum is to ask questions and help others. If you don't like the question and don't want to be helpful so be it.

Dave Kile

Thanks!

After getting a lot of good advice from everyone on here, I pulled the trigger on a tool set and a vice. I decided I was going to stick with less expensive stuff that fits my budget until I decided fly tying is something I wanna get serious with

After some looking, I came across a Terra "Mini travel tool kit", it has scissors, ceramic bobbin, bodkin, whip finisher, and hackle pliers. Basically everything I need to get started. I can DIY a hair stacker.

As for the vise, I took the advice from the vise review thread on here and went with the Bass Pro Crown vise as it fit my budget and got the best rating.

Next up, time to start buying materials to tie with.


1. Can I purchase a hook "kit" that'll contain a mixed variety of common hook sizes I need to tie with? I havent been about to come across too much information on this.

2. Same goes for a thread "kit"? I can find every color thread I could ever imagine, but I cannot seem to find a set of threads in common, often used colors.


Thanks

 

[djs12354]

Haven't seen a "Hook Kit" but will go back to previous advice. Thread kits seem to be available, but are small spools which in the end makes them more expensive.

I'll go back to previous advice. Pick flies that you are going to tie and purchase what you need for those ties. Allen (forum sponsor) has good prices for hooks and beads and quick service. Thread is widely available.

Good Luck!