Bald Eagle Creek/Sayers Dam

[Hook_Jaw]

I'll rephrase:

Who says it being Ignored in the past means it's not right and needs changed?

 

[bigjohn58]

troutbert wrote:

You posted that in the form of a reply to my post, but addressed absolutely nothing of what I said.

So.....

Are there any good arguments in favor of keeping the very low flows I described?

Are there any benefits of that?

And what possible harms would there be in changing the flow regime to eliminate those extreme low flow periods?

The simple reason to do that is that aquatic life requires water. All species of fish, aquatic inverts etc.

Turning off the tap in such an extreme way is harmful to a stream's aquatic life.

IF this study requires next to no money and doesn't effect the recreational benefits above the dam then I guess its ok for them to try. Lets see what it does for the aquatic life below the dam. I really don't see it helping and the PAFBC's excuse for the dam has always been its main purpose is flood control. It has to be shut off at times or have the dam lowered to such extreme levels. That's why there is such little structure or aquatic vegetation growth in that dam. Maybe if they keep it at a certain level all year aquatic vegetation will grow in the dam.

I don't understand how all of a sudden Bald Eagle got to be a concern. That's my main reason for scratching my head at this whole thing.

 

[bigjohn58]

franklin wrote:

bigjohn58 wrote:

franklin wrote:
I'm thinking this is being driven by recreational boaters more than fishermen.

Exact opposite! Recreational boaters are very upset that they want the dam to be at a lower level all summer long. I want to know the people in favor of this project...I'm all for wild trout waters but this plan seems far fetched and not practical.

I'm referring to those using the water below the dam.

I boat on the lake, both recreationally and fishing. I haven't studied the numbers but if a balance between a stable lake level and minimal outflow could be reached I'd be agreeable.

BTW why do you say fishing in the lake is not that great? What species?

The lake is terrible! Panfish are fun to catch through the ice there but you get no size. Sometimes the bluegills are decent size. Perch are pathetic there. Crappies are 8 1/2-8 3/4" with the occasional one out of a thousand a foot to 16". Bass are so few and far apart. Yes there is an occasional lunker caught here and there but over all the bass fishing is terrible on that lake. Some decent catfish and carp but over all that lake is just barren and featureless. I almost feel sorry for the fish that do live in there.

 

[troutbert]

What possible arguments do you have in support of extreme low flows and even "gate closure?"

Go ahead, post em up. Just fill in the blanks.

1_____________________

2_____________________

3_____________________

We'll check back to see how you did.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

Call the amry corp of engineers Bert see how you do.

 

[bigjohn58]

Hook_Jaw wrote:

Call the amry corp of engineers Bert see how you do.

My dad's best friend just retired from there like a year ago. He was the main one that controlled the flow of the dam at Sayers.

 

[troutbert]

bigjohn58 wrote:

Hook_Jaw wrote:

Call the amry corp of engineers Bert see how you do.

My dad's best friend just retired from there like a year ago. He was the main one that controlled the flow of the dam at Sayers.

Did he have any info to share?

 

[bigjohn58]

troutbert wrote:
What possible arguments do you have in support of extreme low flows and even "gate closure?"

Go ahead, post em up. Just fill in the blanks.

1 Stop homes and roads from being flooded down stream

2

3_____________________

We'll check back to see how you did.

That's the only thing I can think of. Flow needs cut off at times to stop flooding down stream. Personally I have never seen Bald Eagle at an extreme low flow that bothered me and I practically lived on lower Bald Eagle growing up. Stream has lots of smallies, catfish, carp, panfish, pickerel, some trout in a few spots, and the occasional musky. Most smallies aren't that big but I've gotten 18 inchers out of there, catfish up to 26", heck back in 2000 my brother caught a 50" tiger musky out of Bald Eagle. Its not a horrible stream but by no means a great stream and it probably really shouldn't be a great stream. It kind of one of those streams that is what it is.

From a fishing stand point I bet the area above the dam would benefit the most. The water would stay at a constant height and maybe encourage aquatic vegetation growth. I always was told that the raising and lowering of the water is why vegetation doesn't grow and that certain species of fish do not thrive in the dam.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

John I remember when they did all that work by where masrh creek dumps in below the bridge where that island and they tore it out was what was the reasoning to take that out.

One of my friends said they saw a big musky in the spillway when the flow was about cutoff last month.

 

[bigjohn58]

Hook_Jaw wrote:
John I remember when they did all that work by where masrh creek dumps in below the bridge where that island and they tore it out was what was the reasoning to take that out.

One of my friends said they saw a big musky in the spillway when the flow was about cutoff last month.

No reason that I am aware of. I was never down in there too much. I mostly fished around the Spillway area and down around the Mill Hall/Flemington area since I could ride my bike there. Fished off the Hammer Mill dam all the time as a kid until I finally got a fine for being on the old railroad tie dam. I don't hear that much about musky around Bald Eagle anymore. We used to time it just right and we always knew we were going to get a hook up. We fished with big chubs and topwater plugs. That monster was caught on whats called a Woodchopper. I think it was a peacock bass lure. Doug up some old photos from back in the day on Bald Eagle. These were all probably around 1998-2000.

 

[troutbert]

Hook_Jaw wrote:
John I remember when they did all that work by where masrh creek dumps in below the bridge where that island and they tore it out was what was the reasoning to take that out.

I saw that too. I think that's the typical sort of stream channelization that is often done to try to prevent flooding.

They dig out a bunch of streambed substrate to increase the capacity of the stream.

Then during the next high flow events a lot of sediment drops out there again.

Then they dig it out again. And so on, forever.

This is a very common thing. I've seen it at many places.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

That's a big musky

 

[franklin]

bigjohn58 wrote:

The lake is terrible! Panfish are fun to catch through the ice there but you get no size. Sometimes the bluegills are decent size. Perch are pathetic there. Crappies are 8 1/2-8 3/4" with the occasional one out of a thousand a foot to 16". Bass are so few and far apart. Yes there is an occasional lunker caught here and there but over all the bass fishing is terrible on that lake. Some decent catfish and carp but over all that lake is just barren and featureless. I almost feel sorry for the fish that do live in there.

I target bass on the lake. It's one of the most productive in PA. I've had a couple conversations with the PFBC biologist in the region. There is LMBv there that takes some younger fish but reproduction is prolific enough to overcome that. Not for big lunkers, but high numbers of 1 - 5 lb bass. On the three day trip with my boat and three anglers we often boat 75 or more bass. Post spawn to end of Sept. Once in a while we even land a 4 lb smallie.

Do you have a boat or fishing from shore? With a boat and a couple guys you can go through rotations of depth, lure, and location until you hit a pattern. Good electronics helps.

 

[bigjohn58]

franklin wrote:

I target bass on the lake. It's one of the most productive in PA. I've had a couple conversations with the PFBC biologist in the region. There is LMBv there that takes some younger fish but reproduction is prolific enough to overcome that. Not for big lunkers, but high numbers of 1 - 5 lb bass. On the three day trip with my boat and three anglers we often boat 75 or more bass. Post spawn to end of Sept. Once in a while we even land a 4 lb smallie.

Do you have a boat or fishing from shore? With a boat and a couple guys you can go through rotations of depth, lure, and location until you hit a pattern. Good electronics helps.

Yup fish out of a boat. My brother does some tournaments up there. Compared to other lakes in the central/north central area its towards the bottom. Honestly most of the tournaments my brother has won up there consisted of one or two fish. I've seen 7 pounders caught there including a smallie that size. Over all population of bass though isn't great. That lake also gets the most pressure (tournaments) and recreational activity out of almost all the lakes in PA.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

I have to agree with that I think there is far better lakes to bass fish in.

 

[Chaz]

Just like ACE to turn a cold water stream into warm water. There are trout in Lower Bald Eagle Creek and several other species of fish. It is unconscionable for ACE to NOT have a Conservation release level on its reservoirs especially one that certainly supported by inflows and river gauge data. There is no excuse for closing the gates on the dam.