almost finished my "banty" rod

[grouse11]

As stated in an earlier thread, I was looking to turn a long bamboo rod into a short bamboo rod by simply using the top two sections. Well, I am now almost done. Won a Montgomery Ward Sport King 9' fly rod on the big auction site for $38. Ordered a grip, reel seat and guides and all but finished the rod in less than 1 day. I am just waiting for the epoxy to cure and then I'll add my finish. It may look good from afar but it really isn't that great, although it was my first time ever making a rod. I forgot to order flex coat so I used 5 minute epoxy for the guide wraps which probably wasn't smart but they aren't coming off nonetheless. It is not the straightest bamboo either and the tip gets a little fat making it stiff. There is also a little bit of propeller twist in the tip so the guides don't line up

Even with all of the little issues, it actually casts very nicely. I was using some 4wt sink tip line with it and it was casting out to 50 feet. It has a good bit of mid flex but has an action more like a modern graphite rod. Overall I am very happy with it and will most likely make more rods in the future.

here are some pics:

 

[bikerfish]

looks great! don't worry about the bamboo being crooked, about half of my boo rods are bent and twisted, but the fish cant see that and don't care. bent sections CAN be straightened with the use of heat, but that's some voodoo I wouldn't recommend a beginner rod maker to try.

 

[FrequentTyer]

Nice work! Thanks for posting the pictures.
Just so you know, Flex Coat is very different from 5 min epoxy because it remains a bit flexible once set. You might find that the epoxy will crack and chip after a while from the stress of flexing. But it looks like you have a nice rod to enjoy, and if that's the worst that happens you can always strip it down and refinish.
Rod building is as addictive as fly fishing and tying, and there is no end to the cool tools you get to buy now!
Mike.

 

[turkey]

Nice job Grouse. Cool project. That 5 minute epoxy is a bear to work with after about...3 minutes or so. I learned my lesson using it for coating the heads/eyes of a batch of Clouser minnows. I didn't get too far. No I only use it for reel seats, tip tops, grips, etc.

 

[grouse11]

Yeah I noticed that with the 5 minute epoxy also. I didn't even have time to clean out my brushes. If I end up having problems with it, I will just refinish it again. It really isn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. I really noticed a huge improvement in my wraps from my first to my last wrap.

 

[FarmerDave]

I used to redo old cane rods as a hobby, and I never used Flexcoat, or epoxy on the windings.

Flex coat if for modern plastic rods.

I only used Gossamer silk for windings unless i am doing a true restore. Then I use a replacement that is close as possible to original, and even use new old stock if I can find it.

I don't use anything on with windings before finishing and whe I finish, I dip it in spar varnish. Made a dip tube out of PVC. They look like glass.

Thin the varnish down or even heat it. Then use several coats. A little very find steel wool between coats as needed. Varnish can be saved and used again. Just make sure you strain out the dust and seal it in a tight container. I also think thinning and heating helps the foreign particles to settle out.

If you feel you must use something on the windings to hold the windings in place until the rod is ready to coat, just brush on a little varnish.

Spar varnish is getting hard to find these days, so you may have to use spar urethane, but so far I am still able to find the traditional stuff.

It could be that I am doing it all wrong, but that is what I do.

 

[gfen]

my first guide fix was accomplished by lashing gold tinsel randomly around a guide and securing with clear nail polish. still works.

sets are common. ignore it. i would, however, suggest you use a heavier line, put a 6 or 7 on it. removing the bottom piece isn't going ot make it a lighter rod, it will actually make it a stiffer rod to load as it doesn't have as far down to flex and load. your actual result is to make a stiffer rod by ditching the bottom section.

thre's numerous chinese vendors who'll sell you a cheap 6-7' 3/4wt blanks on ebay for under $100.

finally, before you hack apart the next one try it as it was intended. you might be surprised the 30 dollar junker you bought to destroy turns into one you find extreme pleasure in using and that you put effort into repairing, not hacking up.

 

[FrequentTyer]

FarmerDave wrote:
I used to redo old cane rods as a hobby, and I never used Flexcoat, or epoxy on the windings.

Flex coat if for modern plastic rods.

I only used Gossamer silk for windings unless i am doing a true restore. Then I use a replacement that is close as possible to original, and even use new old stock if I can find it.

I don't use anything on with windings before finishing and whe I finish, I dip it in spar varnish. Made a dip tube out of PVC. They look like glass.

Thin the varnish down or even heat it. Then use several coats. A little very find steel wool between coats as needed. Varnish can be saved and used again. Just make sure you strain out the dust and seal it in a tight container. I also think thinning and heating helps the foreign particles to settle out.

If you feel you must use something on the windings to hold the windings in place until the rod is ready to coat, just brush on a little varnish.

Spar varnish is getting hard to find these days, so you may have to use spar urethane, but so far I am still able to find the traditional stuff.

It could be that I am doing it all wrong, but that is what I do.

Dave, you are absolutely correct from a traditional standpoint, and most makers use a method similar to what you describe. However, there are more than a few high end makers that have begun using Flex Coat or other alternatives. They argue that if Leonard or Young had the new materials available they would have used them. Given the constant innovation in the early days of bamboo rod making, it's hard to argue with that logic. Of course restoration is a different story altogether. For a first foray into rod building departures from tradition are the norm, and you would probably agree that having a rod you enjoy fishing at the end of the process makes it successful even if you used duct tape. He'll be coring his basement floor to install the dip tank soon enough.
Mike.

 

[FarmerDave]

FrequentTyer wrote:

Dave, you are absolutely correct from a traditional standpoint, and most makers use a method similar to what you describe. However, there are more than a few high end makers that have begun using Flex Coat or other alternatives. They argue that if Leonard or Young had the new materials available they would have used them. Given the constant innovation in the early days of bamboo rod making, it's hard to argue with that logic. Of course restoration is a different story altogether. For a first foray into rod building departures from tradition are the norm, and you would probably agree that having a rod you enjoy fishing at the end of the process makes it successful even if you used duct tape. He'll be coring his basement floor to install the dip tank soon enough.
Mike.

Good points. Hell, even plastic reel seats were used on some cane rods. But my point was that you don't need Flex coat on any cane rod. Just use whatever finish you intend to use whether it be spar varnish. polyurethane, or even tongue oil.

Although I intend on sticking to the traditional materials (because I like them so much), I have a question.

I've never built a graphite rod, and don't remember ever using flex coat. Isn't flex coat used to prevent the winding color from changing?

With silk and spar varnish, the color of the windings changes, sometimes drastically, when the varnish is applied.

Anyway, just asking.

gfens gave great advice. Never built a banty by eliminating the butt section, but I had considered it a few times.

 

[JoeE]

Banty's are what they are. Most of the one's I have casted usually do okay with a 5 wt line. Silk wraps and varnish would have be more on the traditional end, but it is fishable and that is what counts.

Joe E

 

[grouse11]

Thanks for all of the comments and advice. I probably should have took my time with it but that just isn't how I do things. I learn a lot from forums like this but 90% of my learning comes from doing. I jumped in and came out with a fishable rod on my first attempt. I now know what I can change in the future and hopefully my next one will turn out a little nicer. I probably would have just put the finish over it without epoxy but some of my wraps were a little weak. My last half dozen wraps were excellent in my opinion but I couldn't leave some epoxied and some not.

I will probably just fish it with a 4wt line for now because I don't have much money (college) and can't afford to do the testing. My grandfather is going to try and get me up to Penns for the first time sometime next week so I will probably try and use it then. I have also never fished with my grandfather so it will be an exceptionally special day, fishing with my grandfather and possibly catching a fish on the first rod I made.

Thanks again for all of the positive feedback and I'll try to get some more pictures up when it is completely finished and maybe even with a fish.

 

[gfen]

Use it however you think its most efficent, but you miss the whole raisin de existentialist by using a line 2-3 classes below what makes it a bamboo rod.

Ask the old man to loan you a 7wt line if he has it, otherwise a rural Sprawlmart might carry the $15 Cortland fairplays. At this point you're tossing a somewhat gnarled tree branch. If you load the rod it will be far more interesting to use.

And, if you do another one, just buy a blank or destroy a cheap post war Japanese rod.

 

[grouse11]

I'm sure he has a reel with 6 or 7 wt line lying around somewhere, I'll have to ask him.

Don't know why I shouldn't have used the rod that I did. A blank is too expensive for me right now, although it may be an option in the future. And since I paid less than forty dollars for the rod I got, I saw no problem in using that. It wasn't that great to begin with and I don't have a need for a heavy, long bamboo rod that will tire me out after a few dozen casts. Maybe once I hit the gym a couple of times but not now.

 

[gfen]

Today's cheap rod will be tomorrow's classic. Each of these rods came from a given maker, and as the collector's eye turns to them they will go up in value and become known as quality rods and not just "tomato stakes."

Except for post-War Japanese rods. Those are destroyable.

Yesterday it was Heddon, tomorrow it may very well be South Bend or Montague, both of which are rising in stature. H-I? Eventually they'll all be known, and one of those three made your Sport King rod.

Your grandfather was able to fish with that "long heavy" rod quite adeptly. His father fished with greenwood, heavier still. Its the weight that gives it purpose, which you might understand if you strung it up with a line that'll load it and give it a whirl.

To put that in perspective, take your graphite rod and remove the lower piece. How's it cast? You realize that's all you've really accomplished with the "banty" bamboo, right? The design of the rod has been thrown away in an attempt to make something it was never meant to make, a 6' fly rod (much less a 6' 4wt from a 9' 7wt).

If a blank is too expensive for you right now, save your money. In the long run, you'll have a fishing tool designed to a job if you do and not a halfassed "banty."

Its a moot point. Enjoy what you've got, but give it the attention of a proper line to load it. Remember, by removing the lower third of the rod you've only made it a heavier weight rod, absolutely not a lighter one. The heaviest line the old man has is the one you need try. If he has a 6 and an 8, try the 8.

 

[JeffK]

Messing around with old rods is addicting and your skills will improve. I too believe in doing - but I stop and think more as I get older. I started doing this stuff 40 years ago when the resources were less (and I had no money). I used sewing thread for the wraps ( could only get C or D wrapping thread locally) and plain old spar varnish with a brush for the finish. I scavenged most components off of broken rods I bummed from older anglers. The rods may not have been pretty, but I learned a lot and it got me started.

A heavier rod may feel lighter with proper style. back in the heavy rod days the elbow was kept tight to the torso and one used the body more. An old teaching trick was to put one of your dollar bills under your arm pit and the instructor kept it if it fell out. That sure encouraged a closed stance! The light modern rods have allowed a more open casting stroke, but when using an old heavy rod it helps to go to an older closed stance.

 

[FarmerDave]

Look at the bright side Gary. With one more Sport King out of the way, that makes your collection of Montgomery Wards Fly rods that much more valuable.

 

[JoeE]

Big Dave, Thank you I need a good laugh today. With all due respect to blue collar bamboo, that was funny.

grouse11, If you have a heat gun you can take the sets out of the rod with no problems. Just heat the rod at the set to the touch and bend or twist slightly in the other direction, repeat until the bend or twist is out. Take your time to not over heat, bend or twist.

Joe E

 

[grouse11]

Went to wally world and picked up a martin caddis creek reel loaded with 6wt line for $20. I didn't notice any big difference in casting, although it is level taper and not weight forward. Either way, I now have reels for all of my rods. I may go pick up some 7wt WF and see what that does for it but i am getting 50+ foot casts with it now and that is plenty for any stream that I fish.

As for the future value of that rod, I really don't care. I have a collection of recurve bows and long bows. When looking for a new one, the most important thing is that I can shoot it. I could spend thousands of dollars on an old grumley or an old bear that is signed by papa bear himself but it just seems pointless to me. Why buy something that you are going to worry about keeping spotless and take the fun out of using it.

 

[gfen]

keeping in mind i know absolutely nothing about archery, if it were feasble to cut the recurved tips off the end of a bow and then put notches in and restring it so it was 6" shorter, would you have really accomplished anything? what if it was just an old martin and not really worth more than its weight in kindling?

that's not unlike what you've done.

i'm glad you're happy with it, go fish the ever loving hell out of it and all that, but what i'm trying to suggest is all you've really done is gone ahead and taken a low end rod and broke off the last 3' and... well, that's about it.

you've made a hammer out of a screw driver. although you may gain the mythical realization that bamboo is as robust as people claim, wth do i know, i still don't have that feeling...

i am suggesting that instead of making a budding career out of hacking up old rods, you should take the effort to do the next one right, even if it means doing it cheaply on an imported chinese blank.

anyways, enjoy it. i have no doubt its everything you hoped it owuld be. a level line is going to load it more than a WF anyways as you're not dealing with front taper, and if you honestly don't see a difference then i think we're able to put this discussion to bed.

 

[pete41]

I never saw a rod that could lose the last 3' and still be useful for anything but garden stakes.