Troutbum82
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Is it just me or has anyone else gave up on steelhead fishing due to the crowds.
pcray1231
Well-known member
Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded.
Seriously, though, it's tough to escape it totally, especially on weekends, so I feel ya. Nomatter what you do, you're pitting yourself against other fishermen rather than the fish themselves. Anywhere that's not posted is always crowded by most other standards.
But if you time it right, you can still usually find a pool or a pod of fish to yourself. Last time I was out I must have only seen a half dozen other guys all day (this was last year). Weekdays are better than weekends. Bad weather helps, specially cold. Being in deer season really helps. Go at least a few miles up from the lake and be willing to walk. Get there early, still in the dark, to beat people to holes, or else target the afternoon after most have left.
Usually how it works for me. I get there earlier than everyone, and have my choice of places. But I'm not a local and don't know the hotspots where they're laying at the moment (these fish aren't evenly spread), so I make the mistake of setting up in the wrong place. Then I go walking, skipping by the other fishermen set up on better holes, and fishing the stretches in between. Maybe find a small pod of fish others ignored, maybe catch one or two and it dies down. But then someone comes walking by, you recognize him from hole X that you've been kicking yourself for not taking when you had the chance, he had a pile of em in front of him. Wait till he gets past you, ask him if he's done with the hole or just taking a break (a polite way of saying can I take the spot). If he's done, he'll tell you yep, have at it. And off you go.
Then day 2 goes much better, as you took note of all the good spots, and you're there before daylight, and have first choice. I'm happy to catch a fish on day 1. Days 2 and 3 of a trip have always been my banner days.
Just stay away from the ultra famous holes, though. Even if you are first, you'll get pushed in on. I don't fish within about 50 yards of anyone I don't know if I'm the mover. And if someone else comes in, my limit is probably about 25 yards before I start going into "combat" mode by making it clear their advance is not welcome. Where it goes from there varies on their personality, my mood, and other factors, but suffice to say, it can ruin my enjoyment of the day in a hurry. Going to a famous hole and expecting to hold it for even a short time is just asking for that to happen. And you don't want to negate your "there first" advantage of a day 2 or 3 by setting up on a famous hole and getting pushed out. No, the day 2 starting spot is a half mile or more away from vehicles, has a pile of fish, and was not totally assaulted on day 1.
Seriously, though, it's tough to escape it totally, especially on weekends, so I feel ya. Nomatter what you do, you're pitting yourself against other fishermen rather than the fish themselves. Anywhere that's not posted is always crowded by most other standards.
But if you time it right, you can still usually find a pool or a pod of fish to yourself. Last time I was out I must have only seen a half dozen other guys all day (this was last year). Weekdays are better than weekends. Bad weather helps, specially cold. Being in deer season really helps. Go at least a few miles up from the lake and be willing to walk. Get there early, still in the dark, to beat people to holes, or else target the afternoon after most have left.
Usually how it works for me. I get there earlier than everyone, and have my choice of places. But I'm not a local and don't know the hotspots where they're laying at the moment (these fish aren't evenly spread), so I make the mistake of setting up in the wrong place. Then I go walking, skipping by the other fishermen set up on better holes, and fishing the stretches in between. Maybe find a small pod of fish others ignored, maybe catch one or two and it dies down. But then someone comes walking by, you recognize him from hole X that you've been kicking yourself for not taking when you had the chance, he had a pile of em in front of him. Wait till he gets past you, ask him if he's done with the hole or just taking a break (a polite way of saying can I take the spot). If he's done, he'll tell you yep, have at it. And off you go.
Then day 2 goes much better, as you took note of all the good spots, and you're there before daylight, and have first choice. I'm happy to catch a fish on day 1. Days 2 and 3 of a trip have always been my banner days.
Just stay away from the ultra famous holes, though. Even if you are first, you'll get pushed in on. I don't fish within about 50 yards of anyone I don't know if I'm the mover. And if someone else comes in, my limit is probably about 25 yards before I start going into "combat" mode by making it clear their advance is not welcome. Where it goes from there varies on their personality, my mood, and other factors, but suffice to say, it can ruin my enjoyment of the day in a hurry. Going to a famous hole and expecting to hold it for even a short time is just asking for that to happen. And you don't want to negate your "there first" advantage of a day 2 or 3 by setting up on a famous hole and getting pushed out. No, the day 2 starting spot is a half mile or more away from vehicles, has a pile of fish, and was not totally assaulted on day 1.
Troutbum82
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The last time i was up there was two weeks ago. I walked way up creek got there before the sun came up. Started catching some steelhead. Then out of the blue about 5 guys came up and stood right beside me. That made me so mad i could have probably killed someone. I think all of my venango county wild brown trout streams have me spoiled. I never see a soul just me and mother nature. I have always placed solitude over all else.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
How close do they get to you? I mean, I'd probably not change a thing about my casting and let come what may....
pcray1231
Well-known member
Yes, you are not going to have the place to yourself. Anywhere. It's only happened to me once where I didn't see another angler on an Erie trib, and that was 15 years ago on land that is now posted.
If you expect to be totally alone, don't go to Erie.
But it's not all lines of fishermen 5 yards apart like the project water at Walnut, either. I think some go there and see that, and think the whole thing is that way. It's not. There are places where you can cover a mile of water and maybe see 10-15 anglers in that distance, even on a weekend. Of course, the fish are concentrated in 8-10 places and those spots are exactly where the anglers are! So you walk and find very small groups of fish that others skipped or didn't see, and yes, those exist. 2 fish here, 3 there, one up under here. Until you spot an opening at a hole with a pile of fish stacked like cordwood, and then pounce like a cat! Tomorrow, be the first to those spots, and the other guys will be waiting for you to leave so they can pounce. Most are respectful enough to wait, like you did yesterday.
A few are not. Govern those situations as you see fit.
If you expect to be totally alone, don't go to Erie.
But it's not all lines of fishermen 5 yards apart like the project water at Walnut, either. I think some go there and see that, and think the whole thing is that way. It's not. There are places where you can cover a mile of water and maybe see 10-15 anglers in that distance, even on a weekend. Of course, the fish are concentrated in 8-10 places and those spots are exactly where the anglers are! So you walk and find very small groups of fish that others skipped or didn't see, and yes, those exist. 2 fish here, 3 there, one up under here. Until you spot an opening at a hole with a pile of fish stacked like cordwood, and then pounce like a cat! Tomorrow, be the first to those spots, and the other guys will be waiting for you to leave so they can pounce. Most are respectful enough to wait, like you did yesterday.
A few are not. Govern those situations as you see fit.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
I wouldn't mind going during the week then. Especially in the COLD. You saw...I'm built for cold weather 
Lots of um, insulation.
Ever been to the Steelie JAM? I bet if they got up early enough the PAFF guys could block out several holes themselves haha!
Wishful thinking.
Lots of um, insulation. Ever been to the Steelie JAM? I bet if they got up early enough the PAFF guys could block out several holes themselves haha!
Wishful thinking.
pcray1231
Well-known member
Yeah, I went to the jam 2 years ago. It's a good time.
The downfall for fishing? You can't get everyone there early enough to be first. When people arrive, you're naturally gonna want to go meet them. Which is great, but you just gave up your "first" rights.
Worth it though, socialization more important than fishing success.
Now, a little TIC:
You could give everyone radios and watch a long length of water, and as soon as a sizable hole opens up, closest person grabs it, call for backup, and have everyone descend on that spot.
"The Eagle has landed"
"Swarm, Swarm!!!!"
The downfall for fishing? You can't get everyone there early enough to be first. When people arrive, you're naturally gonna want to go meet them. Which is great, but you just gave up your "first" rights.
Worth it though, socialization more important than fishing success.
Now, a little TIC:
You could give everyone radios and watch a long length of water, and as soon as a sizable hole opens up, closest person grabs it, call for backup, and have everyone descend on that spot.
"The Eagle has landed"
"Swarm, Swarm!!!!"
Troutbum82
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Well sasquatch they were like 3 feet away it was total b.s i have been going up for years and i have had a few days of some solitude but not many. I have walked the soles off of my boots some days and couldn't find a decent spot other than maybe a couple sets of riffles. It just seems to get worse every year.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
Yeah it just doesn't sound like my cup of tea. I think next year I'm gonna go up to the DSR on a week day and have a crack at salmon. Hopefully I can CATCH one (IE-not snag one). NY sounds much better than Erie, crowd wise.
I want to catch a big fish, but I want to do it authentically. Erie sounds like a lot of snagging and combat fishing.
I want to catch a big fish, but I want to do it authentically. Erie sounds like a lot of snagging and combat fishing.
PACOFRANSICO
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Bilg25 and i went up the day they had the 1 fly in erie. We hit 20mile at daylight and it wasnt that bad fished 2 pools. Then we had to play leap frog down the creek. It wasnt bumper to bumper or rubbiin elbows with strangers. I always joked that if it got 2 crowded I'd take my 13ft. 2 hander up and start "snake roll" casting and get 30ft above and below me cleared out. HA!
bikerfish
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we'll be too busy eating donuts!
T
troutslammer
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I think all of my venango county wild brown trout streams have me spoiled. I never see a soul just me and mother nature. I have always placed solitude over all else.
Troutbum u keep posting reports on here and u might think you are in erie in few years on those streams in venango county. The old 2 tells 4 tells 8 tells 16 goes along way !! carry on with this ironic post !
Troutbum u keep posting reports on here and u might think you are in erie in few years on those streams in venango county. The old 2 tells 4 tells 8 tells 16 goes along way !! carry on with this ironic post !
SBecker
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If I remember correctly, last year we blocked out a couple holes. No one messes with the PAFF crew, we shut schnit down. Nello and I will lock it down.
PennKev
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If we couldn't see the fish as easily as we often do, the crowding would be much less IMO. I've noticed that in off color flows, there are fewer people on the water and those that appear near you, leave a lot sooner if they don't start hooking up. A lot of guys running around up there with the attitude that if you can't see fish, you can't catch them or they aren't there. The opposite is true in my experience. If you can't see them, they are easier to catch.
Also, on many Ohio and Ny tribs, it is rare to actually see many fish. Crowding, as we know it in Erie, is rare on those sorts of creeks. Not saying there is zero angler pressure, but it is more like what you'd expect on Penn's in the spring rather than the Wal-o-nuts. There also tends to be less easy access on the other states tribs. The PA tribs are very suburban and it is hard to simply walk away from the crowds. Anymore, you usally just walk into folks who are doing the thing same but from the other direction.
One thing I try to do is get in a few trips on th ePA tribs before the masses arrive. The last week of Sept., and first week of Oct. often offer good fishing on the bigger PA tribs with hardly any crowds. I also fish high upstream on, and do it earlier than most of the other guys are. The fish run a lot further, and do it a lot quicker than most people think. There is a sacrifice in numbers sometimes, but 10 steelhead instead of 20 is not a big deal to me.
Kev
Also, on many Ohio and Ny tribs, it is rare to actually see many fish. Crowding, as we know it in Erie, is rare on those sorts of creeks. Not saying there is zero angler pressure, but it is more like what you'd expect on Penn's in the spring rather than the Wal-o-nuts. There also tends to be less easy access on the other states tribs. The PA tribs are very suburban and it is hard to simply walk away from the crowds. Anymore, you usally just walk into folks who are doing the thing same but from the other direction.
One thing I try to do is get in a few trips on th ePA tribs before the masses arrive. The last week of Sept., and first week of Oct. often offer good fishing on the bigger PA tribs with hardly any crowds. I also fish high upstream on, and do it earlier than most of the other guys are. The fish run a lot further, and do it a lot quicker than most people think. There is a sacrifice in numbers sometimes, but 10 steelhead instead of 20 is not a big deal to me.
Kev
Troutbum82
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Hey trout slammer There is no mystery or secrecy what so ever about venango county streams. I know tons of guys from pittsburgh and erie that go there. There have been multiple books published that mention this. 90 percent of fisherman don't even walk that far up the creeks. Stay off of my posts you are really starting to get on my nerves.
C
CRB
Well-known member
It is what it is.....if there were 25 fish per stream would 'yall come up??
NY can be just as crowded or blown out much worse. Ohio may or may not have fish depending on time of year. If you don't like crowds walk or ask that they rotate through. It is all in how you mike your trip, will it be a bust or not. If you park in an area with 20 cars your going to see others that is what it is. Live with it or don't participate it is your choice.
Most fisherman on other waters I fish in NWPA gravitate to a small section of stream, especially if am catching fish.
NY can be just as crowded or blown out much worse. Ohio may or may not have fish depending on time of year. If you don't like crowds walk or ask that they rotate through. It is all in how you mike your trip, will it be a bust or not. If you park in an area with 20 cars your going to see others that is what it is. Live with it or don't participate it is your choice.
Most fisherman on other waters I fish in NWPA gravitate to a small section of stream, especially if am catching fish.
salmonoid
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High fish density or low fisherman density. Pick one, but not both - they are inversely proportional. What do you expect with a million little fishies stocked?? Remove some of the stocking and the draw to fish for low density steelhead will soften the crowds.
I've had days where I've walked Elk from the McKean hole to the posted ground below Sterettania (and then back - that is a tiring day). I had entire stream sections to myself, but also found clusters of fisherpeople, particularly near parking lots. The most awesome day I had was a day where we passed a gentleman on the way out and he just smiled and said good luck. We found what he was smiling about; about a hundred hungry steelhead that were trapped in a run between two pools. No one else around. Last year, I fished a creek; saw one other person all day long. Caught a brown and three steelhead; maybe saw a dozen total. It was still worth the walk and a beautiful stream section.
I've had days where I've walked Elk from the McKean hole to the posted ground below Sterettania (and then back - that is a tiring day). I had entire stream sections to myself, but also found clusters of fisherpeople, particularly near parking lots. The most awesome day I had was a day where we passed a gentleman on the way out and he just smiled and said good luck. We found what he was smiling about; about a hundred hungry steelhead that were trapped in a run between two pools. No one else around. Last year, I fished a creek; saw one other person all day long. Caught a brown and three steelhead; maybe saw a dozen total. It was still worth the walk and a beautiful stream section.
T
troutslammer
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troutbum u talk out both ends i find this very amusing carry on i tell ya !!!!!!
turkey
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Oct/Nov seem to be the worst for crowds, but there are places you can hoof it to that don't have a ton of guys...usually away from parking lots. Once deer (rifle) starts it thins out even more. I don't usually start making frequent trips until December...but I've had my best days in January and February. You just have to embrace the weather a little bit.
PACOFRANSICO
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Isnt that what steelhead is about is foul weather. I had some of my best days up there in the snow, wind, ice, and freezing rain. Freezing guides and neopreme duck huntin waders ( I hate 'em but there warm) thtas steelheadin. I'll be up fishin the 1st day of buck season.
