Proposed Harvest of Rainbows and Browns in FFO Section Big Spring

[DGC]

The outlines of new regulations at Big Spring permitting harvest have been hinted at, but this seems to be a bit more "official."

Harvest of rainbows and browns in the FFO section proposed at the rate of 5 per day but only using fly gear and artificial flies. Brook trout remain strictly C & R.

"If approved by the Commissioners, the regulation proposal will be posted in the Pennsylvania Bulletin for public comment following the January 2013 Commission meeting."

Therefore, not a done deal by any means. If adopted, the regulation would start in January 2014.

On this see: Fishery Management Plan for Big Spring Creek (7b)

I don't recall ever fishing a stream that had differential harvest according to species.

I might add that modern fly fishers are not especially well known for their willingness to harvest stockers much less wild trout.

 

[Fishidiot]

DGC,
We have discussed this proposal at considerable length in a recent thread, and on the home page blog.

Previous Big Spring Discussion

We have encouraged our readership to write to the PFBC and share their views on the management proposals under consideration. If readers have not already done this, they should soon as the commissioners will be taking up the proposal shortly.
I have already sent in my views and don't care to write them over again on this forum.

With respect to differential harvest of species, I agree that it's unorthodox here in PA. However, in other states and national parks, it has become more common in recent years.

 

[Phish_On]

Terrible idea. Yes the Bows an Browns are not 'native' but if wasnet for them that fishery would have been lost long ago.

 

[Squaretail]

I might add that modern fly fishers are not especially well known for their willingness to harvest stockers much less wild trout.

This is true, but not all people that own a flyrod are flyfishers.
The same guys you see show up once a year at the FFO sections when they are stocked in early spring before the season opens are bound to show at Big Spring.
This can be looked at as a win/win or lose/lose situation and it kind of splits me in two. Native brookies have reigned supreme at the top of my list of favorite fishes since I first caught one as a kid. But the rainbows and occasional brown down there are absolutely special and I find it hard to ignore them.
My real question is, just how much would this really help the brookies?

 

[Phish_On]

"My real question is, just how much would this really help the brookies?"

My thoughts exactly.

 

[streamerguy]

I might add that modern fly fishers are not especially well known for their willingness to harvest stockers much less wild trout.

That's the thing, even though it would be legal and encouraged, most of the fly fisherman would still probably release the browns and bows.

Last night I was reading a little in a book I got for Christmas and it was talking about how they were trying to get rid of brookies in a native greenback cutty stream. They opened the stream to fishing and highly enouraged everyone(all fly fisherman) to harvest the brook trout. Well, the first day the stream was open to fishing(they made it an event) 65% of the brookies caught were released. Yeah, a bunch were removed but way more were still being released which defeated the whole purpose.

 

[bjb27_99]

DGC wrote:

I don't recall ever fishing a stream that had differential harvest according to species.

The only streams that fall into this category (that I know of) are the WBTE streams. See highlights of rules below from the PFBC website.

WILD BROOK TROUT ENHANCEMENT PROGRAM
-Open to fishing year-round (no closed season).
-No brook trout may be killed or had in possession.
-There are no tackle restrictions.
-The regulations apply to brook trout only; all other species, inland regulations apply.
-A current trout/salmon permit (or Combination Trout/Salmon/Lake Erie permit) is required.

 

[laszlo]

I don't know if this is possible but could these fish possibly be transplanted to a nearby stream? That way they would be illiminated but not really illiminated. I'd imagine you'll have to be pretty quick and the next stream would have to be pretty close by.

 

[JasonS]

Maybe you can keep them in your bathtub.

 

[geebee]

As far as I see it, current temps allow native brookies to dominate the upper part and wild bows to dominate the lower part.

And they want brookies to dominate the whole.

But then most fly fishers are c&r anyway.

My vote is to leave as is, or harvest the browns to reduce the competition for the native brookies in the upper part and wild bows in the lower part.

If they are desperate to spend the money rather than losing it, plant some trees and bushes, clean up any tribs and build a couple of benches or fishing huts for weary anglers.

 

[Chaz]

Actually Differential harvest was in effect on Selective Harvest Streams when we had the regualtion; "a 9 inch minimum length limit for brook and rainbow trout and a 12 inch length limit for brown trout." Also under the Brook Trout Enhancement Program; "All brook trout must be released unharmed."
Why they need a special reg just for Big Spring doesn't make sense, when they already have a regulation in place that PFBC could use, the Brook Trout Enhancement Reg.

 

[barbless]

There are streams in the Shenandoahs where, as part of native brook trout restoration, the harvest of brown trout is mandatory; returning a brown trout of any size to the water is legally prohibited.

http://www.nps.gov/shen/parknews/special-brown-trout-regulations.htm

There has also been extensive electroshocking to facilitate removal and transfer of brown trout to other waters. And those measures do seem to have helped the brook trout in the affected streams recover.

 

[tomitrout]

I wonder how much this will really help the brookies? Chatted with some fisheries biologist types over the holidaze about their experiences out west w/ eradicating the invasive brookies in favor of the native cutts. They found that even in isolated watersheds that after poisoning the system to clean the slate, they were never able to fully wipe out the brookies and get back to a previous levels of native purity.

So, I wonder how much effect allowing the harvest of the 'bows and browns will really have? Might be nice though to have the option of taking home a brace of wild & clean 12-14" bows on occasion to toss on the grill vs those bland imitatons the state stocks elsewhere...will be interesting to see how this plays out for sure.

 

[3wt7X]

I feel that if people think that it is essential to change Big Spring from the great wild trout fishery that it has become then I am on board with the safe removal of the Rainbows and Browns, and transferring those fish to similar streams. I would not like to see any rainbows from Big Spring end up in the Letort, but I would not have a problem with the Browns going in there. I think Falling Springs Branch would be a prime candidate, as it supports populations of both species, and I really would not have a problem with a few of those wild bows going in the C and R section of Yellow Breeches. Regardless, I feel the best plan is to leave the wild trout alone in Big Spring, and see what happens.

 

[pcray1231]

I don't think it will be effective at wiping out browns and bows. Holding their numbers down? Depends on how many of the anglers actually keep em. I have my doubts that a high percentage will harvest.

Same with brook trout enhancement regs. The people who generally fish those streams aren't the type that harvest, and I have my doubts if very many browns get kept, even if that's the desire. It will be even moreso that way with the fly fishing only thing. It's just hard to get many fly fishermen to harvest, even if you want them to!

It might work if you shock it first and remove whatever browns and bows you can get. Get their numbers low to start, so that their population is a little easier to control by some occasional harvest. Then enact the regs, and publicize it heavily. Make it clear that it's not only legal to harvest browns and bows, but outright encouraged. You could even go as far as encouraging people to put a knife through them before release even if you don't want to harvest.

 

[wgmiller]

How many browns are in BS anyway? I haven't seen a lot of pics of them being caught nor heard much about it. A year or two ago I had a big brown hog swim over to me and position close to my legs, but he was an old, old fish. Chances are he was on his last leg and ready for fish heaven.

 

[JackM]

They should allow you to throw as many non-native species on the banks as your skill or luck will allow. It won't irradicate, but it will give a competitive advantage to the natives. The real issue is that 90% of anglers can't tell a brown from a brook from a rainbow. Can you say "collateral damage?"

 

[Fishidiot]

wgmiller wrote:
How many browns are in BS anyway?

Very few.
The last two surveys in 2011 and 2012 reveal the continued decline of browns. A handful of YOY fish turned up both times in addition to the few very large, very old fish you describe. I'm still seeing them too... but fewer every year.
It's unclear why this is but the trend has been evident since 2001. For whatever reason browns - unlike brookies and bows - just don't find BS ideal for spawning. That or there's a habitat issue. Browns have been in BS for decades and this has included some very big fish (two state records). Until 2001 browns were numerous in the ditch and I always assumed they were wild because they looked wild. In hindsight, I'm inclined to think now that the big fish were mainly hatchery escapees. I have personally never seen browns actively spawning in BS and I've fished it for thirty years.
Whatever the case, the new proposed regulations are designed to reduce rainbows... and browns just happened to be added to the language.

 

[wildtrout2]

JackM wrote:
The real issue is that 90% of anglers can't tell a brown from a brook from a rainbow. Can you say "collateral damage?"

This is definitely the case with brookies and browns. I've got a buddy who has thousands of dollars worth of fly rods and other gear, and can't tell them apart. It's sad.

 

[jdaddy]

Pandering to a whiney minority imo. Arent the kill, kill, kill the bows the same folks who have been crying about the stream improvements that favor bows? Lets go back and just dam the whole thing up and have brookie ponds.