Support your local fly shops!

[jaybo41]

I get a newsletter from International Angler here in Pittsburgh and found the following information disturbing. I've seen lots of posts fairly recently about guys asking which rod or which gear to purchase. There are always a few suggestions from people suggesting going to the big box stores or ordering on the internet. I realize that for some people these may indeed be the most viable option. For those on the fringe or those with the means to get to a fly shop, even having to drive a little further, please keep this in mind.

"Eye opener!!!! I was recently talking to one of our wholesalers who passed on this disturbing news. He recently came across his dealer list from 5 years ago. His company mainly serves the fly fishing industry but they also had bait and tackle shops among their customers. 80% of the shops that they used to do business with are out of business. Why? My guess would be that there were too many people chasing their dream of owning a fly shop within an industry
that is not big enough to support them (see the above article on the survey by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife), the internet (too many sites selling to a small market) and the big box stores. Look at the disappearance of the neighborhood grocery store and hardware stores! Are the fly shop next? Only you, as the consumer, will determine the fate of the local fly shop."

For the most part, I think we're all pretty conscious of this, but it's a good reminder. I myself am somewhat guilty by looking at craft stores for tying materials so I'm going to re-think my buying habits.

That's the end of my rant, carry on.

 

[Padraic]

I went to Cabelas a couple of times, and I have to say... If you wanted to shop for flyrods there, how could you? I was looking at them and wanted to try one. But there was no one to ask if I could try one. Who knows if I could have or not? They had two guys working the flyshop but there were people waiting in line to ask questions. I don't think they would have taken me outside to lawn cast one of their rods.

Compare that to my local flyshops, Yellow Breeches Outfitters and Clousers (and I am sure many others), who would have strung up any rod in the store and let me take it out on my own even when they KNEW I wasn't buying. They just knew what service was and how to provide it.

 

[mediclimber]

I make it a point to stop at TCO in Reading at least once a week even if it's just for a spool of thread. I know what you mean about Cabellas. When they opened they sent out questionaires about the store and I told themit was too big and none of the employees seemed to know where everything was or what half of it was for.

 

[PALongbow]

mediclimber - We have probably cross paths at TCO. I'm there just about every Saturday picking up stuff. I have spent thousands of dollars at TCO in Reading. Also spent a fair share of money at other PA fly shops.

We need to keep these guys in business or otherwise they will have no other choice but to close up.

Ron

 

[Acristickid]

jay-

I think your right on with your comments. Funny, had this discussion on the way to fishing a couple of weeks ago.

What is it a $1 billion dollar industry?

Flyfishing probably 5% of the total? Everyone chasing the same customer base.

 

[tabasco_joe]

Padraic wrote:
I went to Cabelas a couple of times, and I have to say... If you wanted to shop for flyrods there, how could you? I was looking at them and wanted to try one. But there was no one to ask if I could try one. Who knows if I could have or not? They had two guys working the flyshop but there were people waiting in line to ask questions. I don't think they would have taken me outside to lawn cast one of their rods.

Compare that to my local flyshops, Yellow Breeches Outfitters and Clousers (and I am sure many others), who would have strung up any rod in the store and let me take it out on my own even when they KNEW I wasn't buying. They just knew what service was and how to provide it.

On the pro big store side I'm told Cabelas will let you try a rod but I've never actually done it there. I have found knowledgable people at Cabelas and very knowledgable guys at the fly shop in Bass Pro at Harrisburg.

But; all the name brands are generally at list unless there is an inventory clearance. So TFO, Sage, etc are the same price at the local shops. So why not buy there? I find the more I learn about flyfishing the more critical I am of both rods and tying material and the more I am gravitating to fly shops.

 

[Padraic]

Tabasco,

The Bass Pro Shop fly shop is run by Bobby Jr., Bob Clouser's son. You won't catch me saying anything about him!

But my point about Cabelas isn't that they won't let you, so much as the "take a number" atmosphere. Soooo different than a real flyshop. And like you said, the prices are the same. Why pay the same and get less?

 

[skiltonian]

I was in French Creek Outfitters the other day (where I used to work for a few years) and the fishing manager told me that they can't afford to restock the fishing supplies because they have no money coming in. Even with sales up to 30% off, they can't bring people in (their advertising isn't the best but that too costs money). Whats unfornate is that I really have everything I need plus enough for three other guys so its tough to justify buying for no reason. I really think not enough people are getting into the sport even with high-end companies like Ross now offering beginner combos. Also, here in SE PA the fishing is not what it used to be. I'm having my first child in January and I'm really concerned that I'm not going to get him interested in fishing because quite frankly you pretty much need to know what you are doing to have a big number day around here even for warm water fishing. The Perk used to be fish every cast, now I get excited about over 20 fish with a 12" smallie being the biggest fish of the day. Trout wise - with the exception of stocked fish - its going to be hard to kept a young childs interest on streams like the little L and Valley.

 

[pete41]

I was in Dan Baileys fly shop in Montana a few years ago.Some of us were shooting the breeze.I said I didn't understand why all the fly shops were putting so much emphasis on selling clothes.John Bailey[the manager,owner] said``because thats were the money is''.He then explained the big shops couldn't make it on fishing tackle.
When I first starting going to Baileys they had a dozen or so local women tying right in the shop.History.

 

[tabasco_joe]

Padraic wrote:
Tabasco,

The Bass Pro Shop fly shop is run by Bobby Jr., Bob Clouser's son. You won't catch me saying anything about him!

But my point about Cabelas isn't that they won't let you, so much as the "take a number" atmosphere. Soooo different than a real flyshop. And like you said, the prices are the same. Why pay the same and get less?

Agreed. I've got one foot in the big box camp and one foot in the fly shop camp with the forward foot in the shop direction. I guess my last couple issues with shops are the hours they are open and that there are few in SE Pa. At least from my place.

Two weeks ago I was traveling back from central Pa on a Monday and was going to stop at several shops. All but the Evening Hatch in the Poconos was closed. I was even considering running up to Benton to check out that shop. I can understand that they have small staffs and generally Mondays are an off day but it cost them some sales. If I really would have needed something early or late Monday I would have gone to Cabelas.

As to trying rods, the last rod I bought was from the Evening Hatch. A Winston Vapor they had on clearance and I decided to cast it. All it took was a few casts and I wanted it. Quick and easy to try it out which probably wouldn't have happened at Cabelas.

I do like to stop by shops local to where I'm fishing and find out what's happening. And I patronize them while I'm there. I do a lot of camping/fishing trips around the state and the "character" of a local shop adds to the fun of the trips.

 

[ryanh]

I understand your point, however I am not going to subsidize anybody. Just because a shop exists does not mean that it is a good business. If you want my money you need to earn it. A successful business offers two of the three; superior customer service/ low price/ or high quality products. It is a simple formula and it is one that has been cracked by people like Jonas, FFP, big box stores and some others. Jonas and FFP can't touch the big box stores on price (nor should they want to) but they offer excellent costomer service, local expertise and superior products. A private fly shop that does not do this does not deserve to be in operation.

Second point,
If you look at any client/vendor list that is made up of private business %80 will be gone after 5 years. Most start ups don't make it period.

Third Point
Location. When I retire I would love to open up a flyshop. I would be an idiot if I didn't open it up in proximity to good water. Many of these failing shops are located in urban areas. That would be the equivalent of putting a Starbucks in BFE. It will NEVER be profitable

 

[onemorecast]

Padraic wrote:
I went to Cabelas a couple of times, and I have to say... If you wanted to shop for flyrods there, how could you? I was looking at them and wanted to try one. But there was no one to ask if I could try one. Who knows if I could have or not? They had two guys working the flyshop but there were people waiting in line to ask questions. I don't think they would have taken me outside to lawn cast one of their rods.

Actually, Cabelas does let you test rods. I was in the market for a new rod last August and asked for a test drive on a Scott model at Cabelas. The guy at the counter was very knowledgeable and helpful and took me right outside to test cast it. But on busy days, their fly shop can definitely be considered understaffed.

With that said, I am not a huge fan of Cabelas and agree with the general consensus about local shops. Another plus for local fly shops is they're usually within walking distance of a trout stream!

 

[afishinado]

RyanH wrote:

"Jonas and FFP can't touch the big box stores on price (nor should they want to) but they offer and superior products."

I agree about the excellent customer service, but these shops offer the same top name brands of FF stuff at the same price as the BB stores for the most part. The top manufacturers for rods, reels, etc. don't allow discounting and all retailers are forced to sell for the same price all over the country. Search Sage rods for example every shop and BB stores are priced the same. Another reason to buy from the local shop as you said, is for their excellent costomer service and their local expertise. Plus, when a product or service is only available from one or few sources (a monopoly), it hurts the consumer with respect to pricing and choice in the long run. Look at Comcast in Philly!

 

[ryanh]

afishinado wrote:
but these shops offer the same top name brands of FF stuff at the same price as the BB stores for the most part. ........ when a product or service is only available from one or few sources (a monopoly), it hurts the consumer with respect to pricing and choice in the long run. Look at Comcast in Philly!

You are contradicting your self on that.

Although a given Sage model may be the same price in the majority of flyshops the BB stores cary a larger selection of introductory rods than most private flyshops do. So you can come out of a BB store for a lot less money that a private shop. And with technology improvements I would rather cast a decent quality introductory than a first generation graphite Lommis ir Sage. You get way more for your money now and a BB store fits the bill for cheap.

 

[mediclimber]

PALongbow,
Anytime you see an ambulance in thier parking lot, chances are I'm in there after leaving Reading Hospital. If you see a Blazer with NEICE stickers in the side windows, that's me too. I agree keep em in business, they treat me very well.

 

[jayL]

TCO is expanding and opening more shops. I'd venture to say they aren't going anywhere.

 

[afishinado]

RyanH wrote:

“You are contradicting your self on that.

Although a given Sage model may be the same price in the majority of flyshops the BB stores cary a larger selection of introductory rods than most private flyshops do. So you can come out of a BB store for a lot less money that a private shop. And with technology improvements I would rather cast a decent quality introductory than a first generation graphite Lommis ir Sage. You get way more for your money now and a BB store fits the bill for cheap.”




True, a BB store tends to carry more lower priced introductory rods, and they have an advantage there. I do disagree with your statement “that with technology improvements I would rather cast a decent quality introductory than a first generation graphite Lommis ir Sage.”

Loomis and Sage (as well as other American rod Companies) do produce some decent quality introductory rods, which IMO are better overall than many of the cheaper rods found on the BB store shelves. The “decent quality introductory (rod)” that you mentioned IS made from an earlier generation graphite blank, only it is likely made by an unknown foreign manufacturer that copied the technology. Even the American companies that do contract from overseas manufacturers for their rods (Sage does not, I’m not sure about Loomis) have both design and QC standards for the blanks and rods sold under their name. They have a quality reputation to maintain.

You also wrote: “A successful business offers two of the three; superior customer service/ low price/ or high quality products. It is a simple formula and it is one that has been cracked by people like Jonas, FFP, big box stores and some others. Jonas and FFP can't touch the big box stores on price (nor should they want to) but they offer excellent customer service, local expertise and superior products.”


I agree and would not consider buying a mid to high priced rod at any BB Store for the same price. Why wouldn’t you go to buy from someone like Jonas or Steve at FFP for the same price as Cabelas. Which would offer better advice on rod selection and service after the purchase? While your there, you can also get a the stream report, hatch and fly info, and hear some of the best stories ever told….try doing that with at the counter at Cabelas.

 

[mediclimber]

Skiltonian,
I was in Frenchcreek Outfitter two days ago and left with a bitter taste in my mouth. I used to go there regularly when they were on Rt 100 and worked for the originators when I was in Jr and Sr high school (it started from VanBuskirk and Bros in Pottstown). I remember Bob Lewis and the old crew very well. At any rate, I went in looking for a couple very specific items and found none, not even a "hey, we can order it for you" attitude. The real kicker was when I went over to the gun counter and was told a certain rifle I wanted to purchase was not on the market yet. Witih the poor attitude the employee had I fet it necessary to point out that not only is it on the market but Cabellas has four or five on the rack so a road trip was in order. Their move put them in one of the worst locations I think they could find. Their staff needs to keep up on what is going on in general and develop a more positive customer focused attitude or they won't be around long.

I can remember way back in the day, mid sixties to late seventies when there wasa little general store on the main road through Reeders PA, next to the Reeders Inn. It was about a half a mile from my grandparents place, and I spent as much time there as possible. Nothing like walking out the back door and being able to get a deer less than a hundred yards way on the edge of the woods, walking down the path to the swamp and catching frog and turtles and snakes, or jumpng on the bike and riding a couple of miles and fly fishing some wonderful streams. In the winter it was ice fishing and trapping. Penny candy was still a penny and there was tons of places in the woods and streams to explore with no "no trespasing" sigins every ten feet. What more could a boy ask for? At any rate, Mr Rinker, the store owner, was a really close family friend and had the old pot belly stove and checker board thing happening in the front of the place. He also fly fished and had a rool top desk behind the back counter where he tied flies with his buddies, my grandfather included. That's where I learned to tie and cast. They had a private club and owned several acres with a stream about four feet wide running through it and would go fish for a while then go back to the club house and relax by the fire place, play checkers, drink some whisky and tell tall tales. Most everyone fished bamboo that they got from their fathers and they were amazing. I felt out of place the first time I showed up with one of those new fangled Orvis graphite sticks. The new Orvis 150 anniversay bamboo makes me laugh because I got to use the real thing years ago, not a new knock off. Unfortunatly those kind of people are long gone. They new how to satisfy a customer by having what was needed in stock or tying it on the spot or having enough spare little screws an such to fix a broken reel or glue and thread to mend a broken rod. Lessons were free for the asking. Geez I miss those days and more so those people. It's a good thing I still have my fathers hand me down Woolrich red and black mac for hunting and my grandfather's rifles and rods.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Board,

Just curious, have any of you worked in retail? Especially in a fly shop? I've done both, and it blew, bigtime.

Have you ever fielded a phone call from somebody who asked. "What's your clearance price on the ABC model XYZ?"

I have, and the person said, "Well Little Big Creek Fly shop in East Bejusus has them for less than that."

I said, "Sounds like that is where you should buy it then." Then the customer would go, "They don't have anymore and I was wondering if you would match their price?"

That's when I would suddenly realize that I didn't own the shop and would just hang up instead of answering, "Hey man, GFU!," like I would have if I owned the shop.

I'm serious, where do consumer's get their balls? They ask for stuff that no one with any sense of pride would ever ask for and they get insulted when their demands are not met?

The cheapest way in ain't ever the cheapest way out but there is no telling a generation of tools raised on the internet instead of face to face interaction that it is that way.

When it's all reduced to on-line shopping and you are paying the same price everywhere, as in full retail, you will know you have won!

End of rant!

Afishinado, feel free to come in now and accuse me of having a few. Trust me, you wouldn't want to see or hear what I would have written had I been sober.

Have fun at Wal-Mart! I'll bet the only thing they don't put lead in is the eyes of their streamer flies, but WTF, they are cheaper, heyna?

Regards,
Tim Murphy

 

[mediclimber]

Tim,
I did work at Vanbuskirks back in the day and know all the pros and cons to dealing with sportsmen, some with a clue, many without. You want to go really crazy work at a Tractor Supply or Agway and deal wityh some really upset farmers when their equipment breaks during planting or harvest and you or any anybody else doesn't have the replacement parts. And changing tractor tires is no easy job either. I spread my money around. It's like I hear voices when I get close to a fly shop or a BB like Cabellas, Gander Mountain, or Bas Pro Shop. I just have to stop and see what they have that I need or my teeth will fall out. I don't need sales staff falling over me or doing cartwheels, just look at me when we are talking and answer any question honestly. "I don't know" is an acceptable answer instead of flat out lying.