Rant about spot burning warning!!!

[Chaz]

I'm sick of hearing about spot burning; I've received several emails over the years about this topic, knowing I don't "Spot Burn." But it's gotten to the point I have to respond publically.

I received today a message regarding a large river that is heavily impacted by AMD and industrial pollution and needs a lot of help; say I should not spot burn the river. Now I don't usually post much about this river, even though it's near my home, in fact very near, in partly because I don't fish it. But for years I've watched the river gradually get better, only gradually because not enough anglers care enough about the river to help it get better.
The river needs all the help it can get, keeping it quiet only feeds the spoiled imbeciles need to have the river to themselves.

To be clear this river is stocked by clubs and PFBC very heavily, it is no secret; it is in fact commonly asked about and discussed on this very message board. If enough anglers cared enough about this river it would be called a great destination and a great wild trout stream. Now some probably would argue that’s not good for the river, but I would ask; is not cleaning up the river and making it the best it can be what is best for the river? Come on people that would keep every stream in the state secret, grow up!

These places are good fishing place in spite of you and you have no right to complain about spot burning when you are part of the problem. Get a life, go do something for the rivers and streams in PA and stop worrying about a couple of new anglers, who may stop by on a day you want to fish. I mean really, are you so self indulged as to think you need everything to yourself?

People write to me about pictures I post or comments I make about streams all the time, and in tones that ask me to not talk about streams by name, are you so nieve as to think people can't figure this out. Recntly after I was chastised by someone about a pic I posted the same guy posted a map of a somewhat little know stream asking questions about it. Really! Seems like a double standard.

 

[FiveWeight]

Think I'm gonna start name'n every stink'n water way I fish including GPS spots on the honey holes. Just about every bit of fishable trout water is known on the east coast if not damned near everywhere. Just tell um to pound sand Chaz. I'm half kid'n here.... Half! Don't lose sleep over it Chaz.

 

[SBecker]

Was the river the Lehigh? If so...LOL @ that.

 

[sandfly]

I totslly agree on this matter, I will and do talk freely on streams. If someone has a problem with that oh well. tell me to my face I say unless you are a coward. there is no secret spot.. Way to go Chaz !!

And 5weight I dare ya !


OH BOY THIS ONE GONNA BE FUN !

 

[geebee]

was that about Hammer Creek ?

:roll:

i do find the spot burning funny - within a 2,15hr radius of my house i have a 178 Class A, DHALO or FFO sections to fish.


Whilst Hammer Creek is on my spreadsheet (Geeky i know...), its going to take me months to get round to it, as there are so many spots to visit - in fact I may just give up trout fishing altogether until Mid December when the striper & walleye fishing is done.

now, if it was just down the road from me I would probably pound it more but it isn't, and if it was it's highly likely it would be much higher up my list and i'd have fished it anyway and already know how good the fishing can be or not.


I totally understand people protecting small creeks with fragile stocks of small 6" fish that are ATW or general regulations (ie unporotected & unregulated) but when streams are stocked, or on the Class A or Wild Trout list people know about them.


lighten up peeps.

 

[rrt]

Aw, geez, I am trying to refuse to get drawn into this topic yet again. As one who is anti-kiss-and-tell and who has seen various types of damage b/c of it, I am firmly on the opposite side from Chaz's position as stated above.

However, in the past, I have admitted that streams do indeed need friends and that this is a legitimate positive influence from spot burning.

But, in general, I believe kiss-and-telling does much more damage than good.

(Hey, Jack, how's that for my being passive about this topic this time?)

 

[troutbert]

After the Jan. 1996 flood there was a lot of stream channelization going on and I was pretty upset about and made phone calls etc.

Here was the experience when reporting channelization of a famous trout stream. The WCO thanked me, went out to the site, bringing along someone from the county conservation district. Afterwards he called me and said that he fined the landowner, not a large amount, but some, to make it clear that this was actually a violation of the law. He said the landowner was sorry for what he did, and said they had been doing that for years, and didn't know it was against the law. He promised never to do it again, and agreed to create a riparian buffer along that stretch of stream. A conservancy got involved in creating the buffer and a large number of volunteers came out and planted trees and shrubs. As far as I know that section has never been channelized again, and there have been some other large floods since then.

Here was my experience on a non-famous stream I saw getting bulldozed. I called the WCO and reported seeing the bulldozer digging around in the stream. He called back and said: The bulldozer was not in the river. There is no way anyone could get a bulldozer in there.

I told him how they got the bulldozer in there and he gave me a skeptical and sarcastic remark. I asked if he had looked at the streambed and noticed the disturbed gravel and cobble on the bottom. The section they bulldozed was bright colored, and stood out like a sore thumb contrasted against the normal brownish-colored, algae-covered normal rocks, just like a trout redd, except much more obvious. I didn't get much of a reply to that.

I asked if he TALKED TO the people still working there, and ASKED them whether they had the bulldozer in the river. Seems like a normal thing for a WCO to do when you get a report of a bulldozer in the river. He said no, there was no reason to ask them because I know they didn't have the bulldozer in the river.

So I called his supervisor and explained that I had seen the bulldozer myself, and the WCO would not even talk to the people working there and ask them about it.

The supervisor was very harsh and sarcastic. At one point he said "Who are you representing?" He was obviously just looking at it from a power and leverage perspective. He knew that I was just an individual, with no group with any political pull behind this. And the stream was a good wild trout stream, but not very well known at all. It didn't have any constituency who cared about the stream and were willing to fight for it.

And the people doing the construction work there were politically connected and economically powerful. So, he was not willing to do anything about the bulldozing of the stream, which was completely illegal.

This is the way things work in the real world when it comes to streams. The stream was not well known, so it had no constituency that they had to worry about getting angry. They only had to worry about getting the people that did the damage to the stream angry.

(BTW, when my photos of the bulldozer in the stream came back, I sent them to DEP, and they did go out there and have a talk with the people who bulldozed the river.)

 

[Foxgap239]

Chaz, I see both sides of this issue although I come down on the "don't kiss and tell" side more often than not, I just don't always like the way some people go about telling people they shouldn't spot burn. I'm not a fan of intimidation and in favor of PM's. I have pretty much stopped posting my pictures on PAFF as my philosophy has changed. That doesn't mean I won't tell you where I fished and how i did, I just won't do it here. I think I know of which river and person you speak and where I will not speak for that person, I think their point was that a picture of a beautiful above average size fish is going to draw lots of attention and questions. Very few people intent of taking fish home are going to bother with 4 or 5" fish but show them a 12 or 13" fish and now they are interested. Rivers do indeed need friends but not all "friends" are created equal.

 

[FiveWeight]

sandfly wrote:
I totslly agree on this matter, I will and do talk freely on streams. If someone has a problem with that oh well. tell me to my face I say unless you are a coward. there is no secret spot.. Way to go Chaz !!

And 5weight I dare ya !


OH BOY THIS ONE GONNA BE FUN !

sandfly: It's gotta be a double dare!

 

[BradFromPotter]

sandfly wrote:
I totslly agree on this matter, I will and do talk freely on streams. If someone has a problem with that oh well. tell me to my face I say unless you are a coward. there is no secret spot.. Way to go Chaz !!

And 5weight I dare ya !


OH BOY THIS ONE GONNA BE FUN !

If you say anything about what I told you I'm, going to shoot your chickens!

 

[streamerguy]

C'mon guys it's only October, wait until January then we can talk about the whole spot burning thing....

 

[pcray1231]

Well, I come down in a weird position.

I think we SHOULD spot burn. But it only works if everyone does it. i.e. I think everyone should know they have 30 wonderful streams nearby, and that trout fishing in their region isn't just that famous one down the way. I can't believe that I can stand here in Berks County, which is no slouch, and talk to life-long trout fishermen about the local streams and the wild trout, and get a response like "I didn't know there were wild trout in Berks County?"

But if one guy does it on one stream, and nobody else does it on other streams, it leads to a parade of anglers to said stream. It only makes the problem worse. The problem is too many people fishing in one place while lots of other good places go unfished.

Regarding friends. It can be good to individual streams in cases of specific dangers. But overall, if a guy goes to the Little Lehigh every time he fishes, he ONLY cares about the Little Lehigh. If the same guy fishes 40 different streams a year, he tends to get a more global appreciation, and cares about all of those streams plus the 100's that he hasn't fished. So even if he hasn't fished the Little Lehigh, he cares about it, because he intends to fish it someday! The way for streams to get more friends is getting every fishermen to be friends with more streams.

But I try not to do it publicly on this board. For one, many times somebody told me about that stream, or at least I inquired and they told me what they knew. They may not have the same position as me on this. And I want them to tell me about more of them! But I'm generally pretty open in PM's. If someone I don't know well gives me a non-specific question, like "what streams are good in so and so area?", I don't go on and on about a single stream. I give them a dozen or more options. I hope they get around to trying them all. But I'm not gonna fall into the trap of saying "stream X is the best ever!"

 

[pcray1231]

To be more clear:

"Stream X is the best in the area. There are lots of big one's in there, and they take dries well. The best section is between X and Y. Park at the lot by the rail tracks and walk down in. Blah blah blah."

^^^bad

Stream X - the big famous one, good fishing throughout
Stream Y - another nearby option, mostly brookies, some browns.
Stream Z - Kinda like stream Y, but a little more remote.
Stream A - haven't fished it in a while but it used to be good
Stream B - It's the next one up, and has a fair population of wild ones and pretty good hatches.
Stream C - ....
blah blah blah

^^^ Good. Even if all of those are fairly unknown streams. There will be no stampede. Because everyone reading it will pick a different one. That's the goal.

 

[MHanes]

note to self I now know how to get Chaz fired up! Thanks Chaz!

 

[springer1]

That doesn't mean I won't tell you where I fished and how i did, I just won't do it here.

+1 ("here" meaning the open forum) - because I prefer to know who I'm providing info to.

Over the years, I've 1) stopped fishing to go back to my truck to get trash bags to clean up piles of trash 2) been shot at 3) encountered aggressive bait fisherman in fly-fishing only areas 4) had my waders ripped by a trot line 5) encountered evidence of gill netting stretched across a creek and 6) had a guy with a battery-powered aerator bucket tell me "10 inches was the best size" because trout were his favorite flathead bait.

I'll share info with members of this group no problem at all, but unfortunately there are also non-fly fishermen, some of "questionable character" who troll our forum.

 

[FarmerDave]

sandfly wrote:
I totslly agree on this matter, I will and do talk freely on streams. If someone has a problem with that oh well. tell me to my face I say unless you are a coward. there is no secret spot.. Way to go Chaz !!

And 5weight I dare ya !


OH BOY THIS ONE GONNA BE FUN !

I GET THE WINNER?

 

[dc410]

There are a lot of great folks with a ton of information and experience on this forum. I have met many new friends and chatted with or fished with them over the past few years because of this online community. I think it is great how many of the folks have openly shared information with other members. However, I do understand the apprehension to discuss specifics of certain streams openly on a public forum, but I totally disagree with it turning into a pissing match that sometimes go on for a long time. IMO the PM and meet up functions of this site serve a very important role.

However, there are many resources available in our technologically advanced world. Google Maps, Smart Phone Apps, Class A List, Natural repro lists, GPS coordinates, topo software, maps of public lands (State Forests, State Game Lands, State Parks, National Forest etc.) right down to the simple little blue line on a USGS Topo map equate to lots of open water for exploring and fishing.

Most folks can learn how to do some research, locate an access point, formulate a gameplan (park here, walk here, fish back to the vehicle). Some of these fishing trips will be great ..... others will not. Personally I fished 12 streams this year that I had never fished before in my life. Some of them are real gems, others were not! I feel there is a lot of satifaction out of doing the research or hooking up with a member that is willing to share info with you and locating one of these types of fisheries. By going out on your own a person has a good chance of locating their own "spot". Even though you have no idea how many other people consider it their "spot", in your own mind it will be yours to share openly with whoever you choose to and I strongly recommend sharing it with someone along the way.

 

[brookieaddict]

Wow

 

[tomitrout]

I just wanted to post in this very important thread.




Now that that's done....can anybody recommend me a 9'/5wt?

 

[pro4mance]

Can't suggest a good 5wt, but I can suggest a really good forum site. As for the rod, if it feels good go with it.