General vs. Special Regs and Wild Trout

[jim_k]

Here is an interesting question. Like most fishermen (I think) I tend to focus my efforts on special regs areas. So in Fishing Creek, I tend to fish the gorge area - with most other fly fishermen. In Saucon Creek, I fish the trophy trout area.

But as I was browsing through state biologist reports, I noticed that in many cases, the wild trout populations in the General Regs areas may be equivalent to or greater than special regs areas.

As an example, here is a survey from a water I am completely unfamiliar with, but has both general and FFO regs.

http://www.fishandboat.com/images/fisheries/afm/2006/7x07_05yellow.htm

I can't compare the quality of habitat, since I don't know the water - but it is interesting to note that in terms of numbers the wild trout population is at least as strong, allowing for difference in length of waterway being sampled.

Interested in opinions of more experienced anglers. Clearly after the opening day onslaught, the crowds on general reg areas are often less than special regs. Do you find fishing just as good in general regs areas nearby to special regs areas? If so why doesn't the onslaught of freezer packer crowd cause greater mortality to the wild trout population?

 

[Chaz]

Yellow Creek is a stream I've never fished, but Saucon is as I live in the watershed. Take a look at the biologist reports for the Saucon, it's pretty impressive. Some water just lend themselves to bigger fish in specific sections, you have to have the habitat for big fish and you have to have the food. And if you were to ask me habitat trumps food. The one other factor the strain of fish present has to switch over to larger prey, not all strains do.

 

[Fishidiot]

jim_k wrote:
yellow.htm

I can't compare the quality of habitat, since I don't know the water - but it is interesting to note that in terms of numbers the wild trout population is at least as strong, allowing for difference in length of waterway being sampled.

Habitat is often the key.

What you're seeing here is actually rather common.
General reg areas, including stocked fisheries, can and often do hold large numbers of wild trout, sometimes more than nearby special reg sections. I can think of some very well known streams in the SC with famous reg sections that get hammered, while other areas actually have more trout.

I think most of us in this forum community would like to see some more special reg waters (I certainly do). At the same time however, one can often find very good trout fishing out in "general" waters. This is particularly true after about late April. Fishing pressure in popular reg waters, over the course of the year, is often much higher than ATWs...which you can often have to yourself after the first month or so of the season. Not only are there still many stockies, but there are often very good populations of wild trout.

Although this reality is no secret.....I'm still sometimes amazed at all the fly fishermen who stack up on reg waters. The locals "in the know" are often elsewhere....where there are more trout and fewer fishermen.

 

[Fishidiot]

jim_k wrote:
why doesn't the onslaught of freezer packer crowd cause greater mortality to the wild trout population?

Because they don't hook them (for the most part).

Don't get me wrong, I think conventional anglers can (and do ) impact some wild populations, esp streams populated mainly with wild brook trout.
However, overall, the traditional anglers are cropping out the easy to catch stockies and often are unaware of how many wild browns are in the same pool.

I also think - just a hunch, no scientific data here - that the very skilled bait fishermen so common in the past, are fewer in number today. I'm describing the hard core minnow fishermen who sometimes fished at night with live sculpins. These guys nailed wild trout. I just don't think there are as many of them as a generation ago.

 

[geebee]

fish also move. too much pressure in a regs section and after may the fish probably move up into the ATW water.

I agree with fish idiot, bait fishing is a lost art in many ways. a good worm fisherman can empty out a pool in a few days if they choose to.

a hook a worm and some shot is all you need, lob upstream and hi stick it down. if the bumps stop lift the rod.

its been done since Izaak Walton.

 

[jim_k]

I guess wild trout have an advantage in that the less cautious stockies will always get hooked first, alerting the wild ones to flee for cover.

 

[FarmerDave]

The fishing is always way better in the special regs. I think all of you should continue to fish only those areas.

;-)

 

[pcray1231]

When it comes to wild trout, on AVERAGE the fishing is better in special regs, but the BEST places are often under general regs. I think it has little to do with the actual regs. Habitat trumps all. But special regs go on fairly good waters to begin with, they just don't put them on areas that aren't any good. Chicken and the egg argument I guess. Which came first, the water that was popular because it's good, or the special regs which supposedly made it good? The answer is that it was always good water, regs or no regs. The regs probably help protect it because these are naturally popular places. But they also put more pressure on it by advertising it as "good".

But the best places are just as good naturally, but lesser known and lightly pressured. Those places rarely get special reg protection. They don't need it. They aren't abused, or are just so good they can handle it, or whatever.

On stocked streams the situation changes a bit, but I still think special regs are often over-rated.

why doesn't the onslaught of freezer packer crowd cause greater mortality to the wild trout population?

Because we see bait and spinning rod guys and place them mentally into the freezer packer crowd. And that's a mistake. The bait/spin guys actually release far more than they keep these days. And they ain't all deep hookers either.

The freezer crowd does exist but are a smaller contingent than we give them credit for. They do ruin streams. More accurately, small sections of streams. But it's pretty easy to predict where they've hurt, and where they haven't.

The ones keeping all the fish are right at the access points, mostly on opening weekend, and to a lesser extent the entire week following an in-season stocking. But fish move. Get away from those known access points and you will find fish. Sometimes it only takes 1/4 mile. Yes, bait/spin guys will have been after them, but they're the type who are less likely to deep hook, and more likely to release. The harvesters aren't very mobile. The C&R guys, even in the bait crowd, are much more mobile.

 

[Railking]

I fish Yellow Creek regularly. The special regulation section is great fishing but heavily pressured. From Maple (Jacks) Run up stream is probably the heaviest pressure on the entire creek. It's right at the parking lot and I can't think of a time I've ever been there that I didn't see somebody fishing it. I think along the lines of GeeBee that the fish probably move to less pressured areas. Stocking through the special reg section is also tougher in that it has no truck access and is float stocked. Rt. 36 bridge down stream is harder to access. It also gets hit pretty hard on the first few days, but after the novelty of trout fishing wears off, you hardly see anybody in the upper sections. I would like to see a study further upstream in the special reg section and see what it holds. I would guess the wild population is higher the more upstream you travel. The gap is also chock full of fish but access is a nightmare. Steep banks and big rocks keep most people away.