Blue Marsh Dam mixing has begun

[Mike]

Just in time for the weekend, Tulpehocken water temps in the tail race met the criteria for the Blue Marsh cold water releases to begin. Check the USGS site; water temps have dropped to desirable levels.

 

[jayL]

Mike,

Can you elaborate on those criteria?

Thanks

It's in the mid 60s now.

 

[sight_nymph_17109]

When it begins to smell of trout in a pot of boiling water maybe? Wow, it went from near 72 to 66 degrees.

 

[Alpabuck]

Yeah and why can Blue Marsh do this but FEW and Cannonsville can not?

 

[Mike]

68 deg F three mornings in a row at 8 AM in the tail-race near the dam triggers the releases. Two mornings in a row does not trigger a release. Start releasing any sooner and you will just run out of cold water that much earlier in the summer, further reducing the length of time that fishing is acceptable and further reducing the number of holdover fish for the following year.

 

[jayL]

That sounds reasonable. Will the release continue through the summer at this point?

 

[Mike]

Based on past history, the releases will continue through the summer, trying to keep the 8 AM temp below 68 deg F until the cold water is gone. .

 

[bam]

Very impressive. I wish all reserviors had the capability of mixing different columns of water to sustain a cold water fishery throughout the year.

 

[streamer-stripper]

Thanks for the info Mike. This is decent news.

As far as other reservoirs, the sad thing is that Cannonsville doesn't even need the "mixing" - they just need the release! They could release 100% cold all summer at much higher levels then current - NYC just refuses to do it... It is a semi-wasted resource.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear streamer-stripper,

Cannonsville is not a wasted resource, it's a water supply reservoir for the largest city in the World. You might not like to hear that but's it's the truth.

The trout fishing on the West Branch of the Delaware exists only due to the vagaries of two sources, Mother Nature and NYC. And neither of them are what you could call reliable.

Regards,

Tim Murphy ;-)

 

[jdaddy]

He stated it was a semi-wasted resource. The point being that while all can absolutely 100% acknowledge that the clean drinking water supply to NYC is the reservoirs reason for being, as a by product they could certainly release the water more consistently and consider the amazing trout fishery that they created. No one would ever suggest that the trout fishery is more important than the water supply for NYC, however when they consistently have excess water that they route through aqueducts instead of discharging . . . well I don't know.

 

[afishinado]

Looks good.

 

[JackM]

Is Blue Marsh Dam an Army Corps controlled dam? If so, two woots for them or whoever makes the decision.

 

[afishinado]

JackM wrote:
Is Blue Marsh Dam an Army Corps controlled dam? If so, two woots for them or whoever makes the decision.

Yup the ACE are Aces....woot-woot.

Mike has worked with them for years to ration out a very small pool of cold water behind the dam and keep the Tully as cool as possible thru the summer.

If it's a particularly hot summer though, by late July or August, the fish are already parboiled and ready to be served with a little lemon.

 

[streamer-stripper]

J, thanks for pointing out that I said it was a "semi-wasted" resource. Obviously NYC needs their water and will get it, but when the res is 80%-100% and the river is in severe need of some water you think they could let some out and then let the dam fill back to capacity in the Fall and Winter when the daytime temps keep the entire system cold...

Dear Tim Murphy,
Why is it that you pop on posts and make it sound like your answer is the end all be all? Seriously dude, if their is one thing i'm familiar with it is the Upper DE. Did I have to state that Cannonsville is NYC's water supply? Get a clue dude.

Regards,

SS

 

[Chaz]

The NYC Reservoirs are held at full elevation. They are only required to release flows based on the FFMP model. It is never enough water to keep the river flowing at an even reasonable flow. Write you Senators and Congressmen, your Governor and State Senator and State Representative. The reservoir has only one valve.
There are many cities that are larger than NYC, Mexico City, Sao Paulo, Tokyo, Hong Kong and on and on.
FEW cannot mix because there is only one valve.

 

[dasofas]

Not to hi-jack the thread, but maybe Mike can work with the ACE at Kinzua and do what is in the best economic interst of the area, and use the bottom gate. As I understand it, the infrastructure is already there, just need to get over the negative effect it would have on the warm water fishery. I know, there is going to be a post about how good the Allegheny is as a smallsmouth fishery, and we should not overlook that fact. But there is very good smallmouth fishing just about everywhere, there are very limited areas that we can influence a watershed into a first class cold water fishery without spending $$$. My humble opion.

 

[Alpabuck]

streamer-stripper wrote:
J, thanks for pointing out that I said it was a "semi-wasted" resource. Obviously NYC needs their water and will get it, but when the res is 80%-100% and the river is in severe need of some water you think they could let some out and then let the dam fill back to capacity in the Fall and Winter when the daytime temps keep the entire system cold...

Dear Tim Murphy,
Why is it that you pop on posts and make it sound like your answer is the end all be all? Seriously dude, if their is one thing i'm familiar with it is the Upper DE. Did I have to state that Cannonsville is NYC's water supply? Get a clue dude.

Regards,

SS

I think you fella's might both be wrong. According to Paul Weamers book if I remember right he says that Cannonsville is used mainly maintain The Montuge flow and that most NYC water comes from Pepacton.

 

[FarmerDave]

dasofas wrote:
Not to hi-jack the thread, but maybe Mike can work with the ACE at Kinzua and do what is in the best economic interst of the area, and use the bottom gate. As I understand it, the infrastructure is already there, just need to get over the negative effect it would have on the warm water fishery. I know, there is going to be a post about how good the Allegheny is as a smallsmouth fishery, and we should not overlook that fact. But there is very good smallmouth fishing just about everywhere, there are very limited areas that we can influence a watershed into a first class cold water fishery without spending $$$. My humble opion.

I thought Kinzua was already a bottom release which explains the special regs trout fishing below the dam.

Am I wrong? Haven't fished there in years.

 

[dasofas]

As I understand it Farmer, there are three gates at Kinzua. The middle gate is the gate used primarily, which keeps the special regs area immediately downstream cool. If they use the lower gate it could extend a CWF past Tionesta. I could be totally wrong here, but there was some talk about this years ago (beer was involved). One day I will spend some time researching.