Harvey Leader Questions

[delfam]

so I'm going to start making my own leader and have been looking at Harvey's formula's but have some questions.

1. His old formula used stiff and soft mono and his new formula only soft, anyone have a preference one which is better?

2. I've seen his formula's use .015" diameter as max but Joe Humphreys starts with .017, what's the benefit of using either?

3. I've seen people prefer Maxima Chameleon for the butt section, but it doesn't come in .011" as in Harvey's formula, should I just use .010?

4. What material should I use for the tippet if I use chameleon for the butt, any brand preferences?

 

[WildTigerTrout]

I build my own leaders. To answer your questions I'll take one at a time. 1. I use the "Old" formula. Hard mono for the butt section and soft for the front. The leaders turn over very well with the old formula. 2. I use .017 for the butt. Can't say about .015 because I have never used it for the butt. 3. Your right I could never figure why they don't make it in .011 I go from .013 to .012 and then to .010 and then last .008. 4. Your preference. I like Rio myself but you may like something different. I also use tippet rings so when I put new tippet on the leader it stays the same length. Good luck. Hope the info helps you.

 

[pcray1231]

1. I stick with stiff and soft, but its up to you. Basically, all soft will give you better drifts, having some stiff in there will help it turn over and improve accuracy. Whatever your preferences are, I suppose, and it depends on where you fish and what your biggest challenge is.

2. 0.017 would be a touch stiffer. Wouldn't make much difference overall. Think I actually start with 0.022 or something...

3. 0.010 or 0.012 is fine. Note, Maxima Chameleon is a "stiff" mono.

4. My personal preference has been Rio Powerflex, which I've found to be softer than others I've tried, but I haven't tried them all. I picked some Suppleflex up this year but haven't tried it yet, the marketing folks claim its softer than Powerflex.....

 

[delfam]

well I think I'll be going with Chameleon in .017, .015, and .013
then Rio in .011, 2x, 3x, 4x, and 5x.

 

[delfam]

anyone use a blood knot tool, I'm looking for recommendations, there's a lot on the market and not sure which to get.

 

[WildTigerTrout]

"Dennison" Leader Vise/Blood Knot Tyer. It's small and works great. Makes tying the blood knot easy.

 

[delfam]

anybody have a idea what diameter they 15lb powerflex is, I see some websites have it at .010 and some at .011

Anybody recommend any websites to buy the tippet, I can't seem to find a place that sells both brands.

 

[jdaddy]

If you want to do an easy online order, Cabelas has both. Some fly shops, such as FFP, have both but don't have easy online ordering.

 

[fly_flinger]

If you have an extra $100 laying around, you could buy the Frog's Hair leader kit. It comes with the blood knot tool and all the spools of material to tie tons of leaders.

 

[pcray1231]

such as FFP, have both but don't have easy online ordering.

True, but give em a call. Very easy to deal with on the phone, and your order will be delivered ridiculously fast. They also have a entire leader tying kit, I think its around $30, which comes with all the Maxima Chameleon you need and spools of tippet, plus a booklet with their recommended leader formulas. The formulas are not a bad reference, even if you use a different formula. Don't think the tippet included is Rio, though (I think it's Climax). You could probably tell the guys at FFP you want the leader kit, but want to replace the Climax with Rio, and I'm betting they'd switch it out for you.

Many shops will carry both brands, and many shops are easy to deal with on the phone.

 

[delfam]

I looked at Cabela's but they don't have Rio in 0x. I'll look at FFP and see what they can do for me.

 

[pcray1231]

I think there is a size in the middle there where I want soft material and either I don't have the Rio or they don't make it, might be 0x. I think I substituted Orvis Superstrong for that one section, which adds a nice little transition between super stiff and super soft. If you can't find the exact material you want, substitute something. These aren't hard and fast rules, more like guidelines. I constantly change my leader construction, almost as much as I change shot when nymphing.

 

[jdaddy]

pcray1231 wrote:

such as FFP, have both but don't have easy online ordering.

True, but give em a call. Very easy to deal with on the phone, and your order will be delivered ridiculously fast.
Many shops will carry both brands, and many shops are easy to deal with on the phone.

I assumed when he said he wanted a website to order from that he did not want to deal with calling. That would be my case as I don't like dealing with people on the phone because I am an ***.

BTW, if you want to get crazy deep into hand tied leaders check this out . . . .

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/download.php

 

[eroc144]

Use the listed diameters as a guideline - they can vary significantly from what's printed on the spool. I picked up a micrometer years ago and was surprised how far off some of the variances were. I've posted what I found for Maxima Chameleon last year.

The acid test for any leader is "does it cast the way you want?" For me it's Tie, adjust, adjust adjust. Then fish.

EG

 

[pcray1231]

All lines are like that, some more than others.

It's very likely the listed diameter is a manufacturing minimum. Measure a different spool of the same stuff, or even the other end of the same spool, and it may be slightly different. But it'll always be at or above what they list as the diameter.

 

[Lonewolve]

hey recent article In American Angler has a formula for the Harvey Slack Leader,it starts with .017. also check out The Harvey book or joe Humphreys books they too have leader formulae in them for the Harvey Slack leader.FlyFisher's Paradise is the place for getting a kit , I use to see George Harvey at FlyFisher's Paradise quite often while getting something i forgot,or seeing whats going on around their local streams when i was out there to fish every other weekend. Harvey leader is a great design.
Tight Wraps ^ Tight Lines
Rick Wallace

 

[steve2u42]

i was interested in the Harvey Leader but i noticed that when he takes it to 5x it is 11.5ft. I am use to a 9ft leader. will this change anything for me going to a longer leader? Also when i was using 2 nymph i would add about 18" of 6x to my 5x to get the nymph down better. I fish different streams here in Pa. from Yellow Breeches to Penns creek in size. I use a 9' 5wt rod. 5wf line.
what make of line should i use? Are they all the same or better if i use different because of softness for Butt, Middle and tippet?

 

[gfen]

I've decided to really tighten in things for my fishing, I'd actually narrow down on leaders and then once I get a feel for the way things should be in an accepted standard (Hey there, George Harvey!), I'll start to go back to playing around.

In other words, I know what works, but I'd like to know what makes it work correctly, then combine it all together.

So, I bought $20 in Maxima spools last night, from 20# to 6#. After that, I'll use regular tippet for the "soft" portion.

I also bought the Tru-Blood KNot Tying tool. I would like to murder the designer. I will absolutely be giving that back to Cabela's. I'd rather tie my improper blood knots than be forced to deal with that thing ever again.

I tied a Harvey leader last night, and I think I can furl the stupid things quicker, but I still look forward to trying it out. The website I pulled a formula off in the cabela's fly cave last night had Amnesia listed for a middle segment. I find that to be a pretty interesting idea, but didn't buy any. If I ever see the green stuff on sale, I'll probably buy a spool to try it out.

 

[pcray1231]

You can adjust length. I use anywhere from 6 ft to 12 ft leaders, depending on the stream and conditions. Leader designs are mostly about ratio's and materials. Leaders have a butt, taper, and tippet. 1/3 for each section is pretty typical. But if you want a softer "slack line" leader, shorten the butt, extend the taper and tippet, and use softer materials.

So, for instance, if you're reading an 11.5' Harvey leader, and you want to shorten it to 9', shave some length off of each section, but keep the same approximate ratio and materials.

 

[Acristickid]

Made a blood knot tool- modeled after the frog hair one.

Just get some office type paper clips or chip clips, 3 longer nails, and a scrap piece of wood.

The nails on either side are stationary and pounded into the wood so they dont move- pound the middle nail in little by little so you can keep pulling it out. You just want it to be able to hold the middle nail.

Put your lines around the nails then use the clips to hold them. Have a space so the middle nail is in the middle of the lines and and start twisting the nail around a few times (maybe 3-5 times depending on the diameter) then put the "tage end through the space where the middle nail is. Make it pretty easy to tie a blood knot.

Can tie them with out a tool pretty quick but was glad to have this aid when starting and still now when tying thick diameters of material.

I too use the maxima leader kit deals. I might like to try a furled type this year as well as a coiled sighter type.