roll cast practice?

[Earthdog]

Can you effectivly practice roll casting on the lawn? Or do you really need to be on the water ?

 

[just_jon]

Your lawn will work just fine for this or any other cast.

 

[PACOFRANSICO]

You can practice roll casting in the lawn but you have to tye up a grass leader. Tye a leader up and use blood knot every 8 inches up it and dont trim tag ends of the knot.

 

[Earthdog]

That is what i was thinking about. Obviously the surface tension is different on grass than water, but the leader idea seems to be the ticket to approxamate simular conditions. I will have to experment a bit. You said every 8 in. --how long of a leader do you normally use on this "grass" set up?
Thanks
Mike

 

[PACOFRANSICO]

Tye every 8 inches from the tipup about 3 or 4 ft on a 9ft leader. And try it. if ya have to add more knots just keep tyeing em. I used these for my spey rod but my leaders were 13ft. long.

 

[Earthdog]

Thank you that was a great help.
Mike

 

[Maurice]

This is really good info. I've taught roll casting on lawns and always prefaced it with it is better to do it on the water due to the different surface tension. Its is interesting to know there is a workaround to duplicate the surface tension. Fascinating!

Good stuff PACO!

 

[afishinado]

You can simulate a roll cast even on a parking lot without any special leader or rig. It's more of a type of single-handed spey cast. Raise your rod past vertical to form the "D" you hear about all the time in spey casting, and try to lift and reposition as much line behind you as possible. You will be casting the weight of the line and not relying on surface tension of the line on the water to load your rod. The more line you lift behind you, the more weight the rod has to load, the easier it is to make you roll cast. HTH.

 

[quillfly]

if you really want to similate the conditions find a larger lot and put some water down car wash bays work really nice if its convient

note i did ask before i just started casting in someones business and the guy is a family friend.

 

[jrcll]

i second what maurice said about surface tension, it helps load the rod for a better back cast, but yes the lawn works great

 

[Maurice]

Tom your exaggerated "D" is only for the Lawn practice, right?

Having that much line behind you on the water leaves a collapsed and weak load.

 

[afishinado]

Maurice wrote:
Tom your exaggerated "D" is only for the Lawn practice, right?

Having that much line behind you on the water leaves a collapsed and weak load.

Mo,

Actually the second diagram is typical of the casting position for a single handed spey cast. The purpose of the "Snap T" is to position your line with the anchor point right in front of you.

Here's a vid that shows how getting the anchor point (where the line meets the water) in front of you allows you to make a spey cast very easily using the weight of the line (not using the surface tension of the water) to load the rod and make your cast.




HTH

 

[Tiltaxp]

Earthdog, what kind of rod and line are you using? My guess is if you are a beginner you probably have a 9' 4 or 5 weight with a weight forward line... Complete guess but that is most likely what is going on and a reason for your struggle with the cast. If it is get a double taper and go out to your local stream and give it a try. A wf line has a heavy tip and lightens out the further out the further into the line you go...

 

[Maurice]

Tom,

What you are employing is a spey cast. A pure roll cast for the purpose of this discussion, with a typical 9' rod, dictates not taking the rod tip behind you but rather to just past vertical allowing the line to drop straight down or slightly to the rear but not behind the caster. Then a narrow "D" is formed as in your top illustration. The load is completely dependent on the surface tension.

The spey cast uses way more "space" around the caster. Roll casts fit into scenarios where a back cast is not possible.

As similar as they ma appear to you, once you begin taking the rod back behind you it ceases to be a roll cast.

Al lease the way I understand it.

 

[jdaddy]

pedobear and i spent a day on the water with Dave Rothrock at this years jam. we were both way hungover but managed to pick up a thing or two from Dave on roll casting. keeping your thumb on top of your cork and when you roll forward, press your thumb down like you are smashing something which needs to be smashed. that and watching/feeling the rod load from water tension was absolutely critical.

also, if you have a new fangled sharkskin type line roll casting is a bit more difficult and you can't get good water tension.

 

[Bruno]

Earthdog wrote:
Can you effectivly practice roll casting on the lawn? Or do you really need to be on the water ?

If you can do it on the lawn the you are good at it. Learn to add a haul into it and you can really throw some line. It is like swinging a framing hammer. Line it up with smooth stoke and then drive the nail.

 

[afishinado]

Maurice wrote:
Tom,

What you are employing is a spey cast. A pure roll cast for the purpose of this discussion, with a typical 9' rod, dictates not taking the rod tip behind you but rather to just past vertical allowing the line to drop straight down or slightly to the rear but not behind the caster. Then a narrow "D" is formed as in your top illustration. The load is completely dependent on the surface tension.

The spey cast uses way more "space" around the caster. Roll casts fit into scenarios where a back cast is not possible.

As similar as they ma appear to you, once you begin taking the rod back behind you it ceases to be a roll cast.

Al lease the way I understand it.

Yup.

afish wrote:
Mo,

Actually the second diagram is typical of the casting position for a single-handed spey cast......

 

[pcray1231]

It's certainly harder to do on grass. The blood knot leader often "catches" on grass. Might depend on the type of grass or might be the dang dandelions in my lawn, lol, but when I do it, the knots catch and release repeatedly during the backstroke. And yeah, even when it works ok, you're depending on the weight of the line rather than the surface tension.

It works, and getting it to work better will help you on the water. But after roll casting on lawn, when you do get to the water, you'll surprise yourself (in a good way). That kind of tells you it is indeed easier on water.