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bye bye trout

Joined:
2009/4/22 12:41
From Lancaster, PA
Posts: 55
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i must've hooked about 6 trout(rainbow, brown and whatever else) on a streamer and just either at the last minute or after a few 10 seconds, boom got away. Now a couple of times, my fly would just jump out of the water and right to a branch from all the pressure i suppose, i had trying to hook the fish. it wasn't immediate either, it was a after the game was on.

i caught one rainbow but i could've easily had many more. do you think i'm doing something wrong? am i being too hasty or brute with my hooking and reeling? should i play them more and get them tired. i confess, i get so excited its hard to contain my strength. i also lost like 3 of my best streamers which stinks.
thanks for the tips.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 23:51


Re: bye bye trout
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Gfig,
Not sure what's going on. I'm inclined to think you just had a fluke day (happens to all of us). You may be putting too much pressure on them, or maybe too little. As a general rule, streamers, in my opinion, tend to lose more fish. This is partly because trout tend to be "short strikers" - in other words, they tend to nip at the fly when they strike rather than inhale it as usually happens with a dry or nymph. The smaller hook on dries and nymphs usually imbeds in the corner of the jaw whereas streamer hooks often just barely catch 'em in the tip of the upper or lower lip. Furthermore, streamer hooks are usually long shank. Due to this long shank, a fighting fish can exert more leverage against the point of the hook and often twist off. This usually happens late in the fight when the fish comes to the surface and starts thrashing and rolling, esp if this is happening downstream from where you're standing. Try to get in the habit of fighting fish "to the side" meaning hold your rod low rather than vertically. Then when a fish shakes free, your fly rod won't send your flies up into a tree that is too high for you to recover your fly from.
Nevertheless, what you describe is a bit odd and shouldn't be happening. As a start, I'd check the sharpness of your hooks; maybe trim your streamers a bit shorter or use smaller ones; try to keep a fighting fish upstream from where you're standing; consider getting a landing net. With a net you can usually land a fish quicker.
Good luck - hope this frustrating losing streak doesn't continue.

Posted on: 2010/6/7 7:27


Re: bye bye trout
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Of all the types of flies (dries, nymphs and streamers) streamers usually cause more misses on fish at the set and lost fish during the fight. Some possible explanations are, first streamers are usually larger than most other flies and have materials the hanging over the rear of the hook causing short strikes. Second, they are fished on a tight line which may cause you to pull the hook out of their mouth when setting. Third, the long shank hook gives the fish more leverage, thus increasing the likelihood of the fish throwing the hooking during the fight.

So why fish streamers?....they catch a lot of fish (and many times bigger ones), and they are the easiest fly to fish in general.

There's not too much you can do. Just make sure your hooks are sharp. If you tie flies, tie them a little sparser and shorter; with less material hanging over the bend. Losing fish on streamers is just part of the game. Try to keep your rod low during the fight, maintain steady pressure, and hope for the best. Remember that a "long release" is not the worst thing anyway.

As far as losing flies in the trees.....that NEVER happens!

Posted on: 2010/6/7 7:27


Re: bye bye trout

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Probably typical for most everyfly guy I think.

Posted on: 2010/6/7 8:43
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Re: bye bye trout

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2009/11/16 19:34
From Nazareth PA
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Quote:

gfig19 wrote:
i must've hooked about 6 trout(rainbow, brown and whatever else) on a streamer and just either at the last minute or after a few 10 seconds, it wasn't immediate either, it was a after the game was on.boom got away.
thanks for the tips.


gfig19, That is part of the game!!

There are many reasons we miss fish. I was out the other night and hooked 8 and landed 3. Many of them were for the same reason. Sometimes it was a fished hooked down stream with an up stream hook set and other times I just let them have a little slack and when the jumped they were off.

If the fish hit hard and turns, you usually get them in the side of the mouth and a good hook set, but if they are sipping they are harder to hook and with a little slack and a jump they get off. At least this was my problem that night.

Be happy you are getting hook ups.

Posted on: 2010/6/7 8:47


Re: bye bye trout

Joined:
2009/4/22 12:41
From Lancaster, PA
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where you guys there watching me???!! haha because everything you said was right on point.

i thought about switching flies, but i was having so many strikes and takes with my streamers that i just couldn't do it. dont get me wrong i was having so much fun, in fact my best fishing day with fly rod ever since i started last year. but my ratio was horrible out of 7 takes i only landed one. and i thought i was going to lose that one too because he came out the water like a rocket, it was amazing to see. and yes the one i landed the streamer hook was exactly as you stated on the lip.

now if you guys are saying that's part of the game, then that makes me feel even better. i had two browns a few ft from me and got away. I will try the side technique to avoid my flies coming up out of the fish into a hanging tree branch.

now if you know the fish are hitting streamers, what would be a logical, rational alternative to make the fish take in the fly deeper for a better set hook?

Posted on: 2010/6/7 11:41


Re: bye bye trout

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2009/4/22 12:41
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yea i just caught that once i read your reply again. you said catching them on a tight line, so what do i do? do i set the drag real lose and let them go for a swim? i felt like everything i had them was less than 15 ft from me, and after a brief fight the hook was off. and i always caught them down stream as well.

Posted on: 2010/6/7 12:01


Re: bye bye trout

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2008/10/8 0:36
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I've been where you are. There where days, esp. when I first started fly-fishing (not that long ago), where I would get 5 or more takes, and lose ALL of them. It's most fustrating when they get off right at your feet .

Often when fishing streamers, just raising the rod to set the hook will not create enough force to drive the hook home. Instead, try using a "strip strike." To make a strip strike, hold the rod low, towards the fish, and give a firm tug (or two or three if you can) with the fly line in your hand to set the hook.

Be sure to use heavy tippet when fishing streamers, as fish can hit them pretty hard. When fishing streamers for trout or bass, I will use at least 3X tippet; 2X is better, IMO. The heavier tippet will be less likely to break from the take and/or strip set, and will allow you hang on to, and land bigger fish more quickly.

Hope that helps. Good luck

Posted on: 2010/6/7 12:57
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Re: bye bye trout

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2009/9/24 15:02
From Montgomery County
Posts: 1585
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What size are your streamers and what size fish are you fishing to?

If you're fishing to fish in the 8-10 inch range, you may want to try a smaller streamer. A size 4 long shank streamer will get plenty of swipes from a 8 inch fish, but very few hook-ups. Also, the bigger the hook, the harder you need to set it. If you're fishing large streamers, keep your rod down and pointed at the fly. Strip hard when you see/feel the take.

Posted on: 2010/6/7 13:32


Re: bye bye trout

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2009/4/22 12:41
From Lancaster, PA
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hey fellas, thanks for the tips. i'm taking them all down in my head and applying every single of one of them until something gets me a higher percentage of landings. i do have a net but since i was teaching my friends how to fish(spin reels) the first half of the day was at the lake, until we made our way down to hammer creek(lititz,pa). they were doing just fine when they switched to earth worms. i was still getting way more hits that them, but they landed some beautiful browns.

the size of the fish we got were at 12 to 16 in that range. the rainbow i caught was about 13 inches. i've used the same streamer in chester county and i was hooking bluegills, pumpinkseeds(some as small as just a few inches) and rockbass with ease, landing them as well. with trout though its much different. unless they engulf the fly or i get lucky with a good hook set i usually lose them. which was the theme yesterday. i was using a size 14 streamer. i contemplated switching to a 16 nymph. i didnt see any rising so i didnt try drys.

Posted on: 2010/6/7 13:59


Re: bye bye trout
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Quote:

gfig19 wrote:
i've used the same streamer in chester county and i was hooking bluegills, pumpinkseeds(some as small as just a few inches) and rockbass with ease, landing them as well. with trout though its much different. unless they engulf the fly or i get lucky with a good hook set i usually lose them. which was the theme yesterday. i was using a size 14 streamer. i contemplated switching to a 16 nymph. i didnt see any rising so i didnt try drys.



It ain't you........it's the trout.

Trout are not as efficient as many other fish when attacking prey. You can use the same streamer on smallies, for example, and they hit the bullesye every time!

Again, sharp hooks and sparser and shorter streamers with less stuff hanging off the back of the hook for trout should help you hook and land more trout.

For example, I tie my wooly buggers for bass and trout differently. For bass, a full hook length of marabou off the back, for trout I tie them short on the shank and the hook bend is near the tail of the fly.

Also, unlike bass, trout have a lot of soft tissue in their mouth region, while the mouth area of a bass is harder and more bony. It very easy to rip the hook out of the mouth of a trout. Don't give yourself a hernia setting the hook on trout, you'll actually end up losing more fish. A firm hook set (one time) is best IMO. A multiple set is okay for the Salt guys or the Bassmasters..........hee haw...'nother hog!!!

LOL.....Good luck.

Posted on: 2010/6/7 14:26


Re: bye bye trout

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2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
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Quote:
Also, unlike bass, trout have a lot of soft tissue in their mouth region, while the mouth area of a bass is harder and more bony. It very easy to rip the hook out of the mouth of a trout.


I disagree. A trout's mouth is mostly bony in comparison to a bass' mouth. Bass have a lot of thin and membrane like tissue in their mouths that allows them to open their jaws widely and engulf their prey. Trout on the other hand must grab larger prey between their jaws and hold on until they can subdue and swallow it. I think this is the real reason for the difference in hooking and landing either fish. Even small bass can close their mouths completely on a fly. In comparison, even a 14-15" trout will have trouble doing that in many cases. Depending on how the trout grabs the fly, the entire bend of the hook could be outside the fishes mouth and oriented so that it will not strike tissue on the hook set or strike outside of the mouth in an akward position. I don't believe losing trout hooked on streamers is a result of "soft tissue," but instead is a matter of their anatomy and our streamer designs not matching up well for angling purposes.

If the goal is to hook and land trout on streamers I would use heavy tippet (2x is often not too heavy) and set the hook as hard as possible. You'll get more fish but they will be hooked in the top of the head, underneath the mouth, behind the gill, on their backs, etc. Whatever the hook point hits when you set.

Kev

Posted on: 2010/6/8 19:38


Re: bye bye trout
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Quote:

PennKev wrote:
Quote:
Also, unlike bass, trout have a lot of soft tissue in their mouth region, while the mouth area of a bass is harder and more bony. It very easy to rip the hook out of the mouth of a trout.


I disagree. A trout's mouth is mostly bony in comparison to a bass' mouth. Bass have a lot of thin and membrane like tissue in their mouths that allows them to open their jaws widely and engulf their prey. Trout on the other hand must grab larger prey between their jaws and hold on until they can subdue and swallow it. I think this is the real reason for the difference in hooking and landing either fish. Even small bass can close their mouths completely on a fly. In comparison, even a 14-15" trout will have trouble doing that in many cases. Depending on how the trout grabs the fly, the entire bend of the hook could be outside the fishes mouth and oriented so that it will not strike tissue on the hook set or strike outside of the mouth in an akward position. I don't believe losing trout hooked on streamers is a result of "soft tissue," but instead is a matter of their anatomy and our streamer designs not matching up well for angling purposes.

If the goal is to hook and land trout on streamers I would use heavy tippet (2x is often not too heavy) and set the hook as hard as possible. You'll get more fish but they will be hooked in the top of the head, underneath the mouth, behind the gill, on their backs, etc. Whatever the hook point hits when you set.

Kev


Well I guess we disagree Kev, but everyone has their own experiences with fishing. I believe the inside tissue of a trout is very soft when compared to bass. The pro bass guys don't use the powerful rods and generate all that power on setting for nothing. They are looking to drive the hook home through the bony mouth.

You wrote, “set the hook as hard as possible.” (for trout). I've fished with many guys that fish mostly for bass, and many use way too hard of a set and tear the hook out of the trout's mouth. They usually end up with a hunk of flesh left on the bend of the hook instead of a fish in the net. In fact, when I fish for smallies for a while and go back to fishing for trout, I sometimes have trouble adjusting to setting the hook for trout.

Not really the case for streamers, but the reason we all lose trout, especially big ones, on the small flies with small hooks is that they often pull free because the gape is so small and holds a very little amount of flesh in their mouth. An overly heavy set, or too much pressure put on the fish during the fight causes it to pull free.

I wrote "Trout are not as efficient as many other fish when attacking prey. You can use the same streamer on smallies, for example, and they hit the bullesye every time!" So I agree that trout generally don't engulf the fly as a bass often does, hence the main reason why we have more missed strikes with trout.

You wrote, “...set the hook as hard as possible. You'll get more fish but they will be hooked in the top of the head, underneath the mouth, behind the gill, on their backs, etc. Whatever the hook point hits when you set.” If setting the hook like you do when bass fishing works for you, than continue on. I’ve found that one good firm set works best for me to hook and land trout.

Posted on: 2010/6/9 7:53


Re: bye bye trout

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2009/1/7 12:19
From Glenmoore PA
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I agree with PennKev on this one. I think there has to be a balance though. I found that when nymphing i was setting the hook half a$$ed becuase most times it was just bottom. When it turned out to be a fish, I had a poor hook set and the fish were getting off. Ive become more dilligent in setting the hook firmly. I still hook bottom sometimes, but the fish are staying on much better. I think setting too hard would not serve well with trout. That has just been my experience.

Posted on: 2010/6/9 12:24


Re: bye bye trout

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2009/1/7 12:19
From Glenmoore PA
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correction, i meant to say I agree with afishinado, sorry PennKev, no hard feelings

Posted on: 2010/6/9 12:25



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