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Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna

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2007/1/5 16:49
From Hershey
Posts: 161
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You are right, and to what end? There seems to me so little personal and societal benefit to our lawn obsession. How does it improve our lives in any way whatsover? There is only harm. Heck, sometimes I feel like my neighborhood is inundated with this stuff. It is everywhere. On the sidewalks. In the streets. Lawns sprayed indiscriminately even on windy days coating my property. I try to run through parks and school grounds and encounter constantly spraying and spreading. One time my daugters soccer game was played on a recently treated field. It was the kind that "sticks to the weeds" Guess what it also sticks to soccer balls, soccer cleats, and clothes and skin. The players were covered with it. I was the only one that seemed to notice. Everyone is so anesthetized by the chemicals. Can't have weed. See a bug, carpetbomb your lawn. Heck spray it in your house. Fog your back yard before a party. Eat off a table coated in chemicals. Better than seeing a bug.

Posted on: 2013/1/21 21:49
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Jay P

Walk up the river to the cedar trees, follow the sun and catch a nice cool breeze


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna

Joined:
2009/12/2 19:56
From SE Pa
Posts: 321
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Quote:
You are right, and to what end? There seems to me so little personal and societal benefit to our lawn obsession. How does it improve our lives in any way whatsover? There is only harm. Heck, sometimes I feel like my neighborhood is inundated with this stuff. It is everywhere. On the sidewalks. In the streets. Lawns sprayed indiscriminately even on windy days coating my property. I try to run through parks and school grounds and encounter constantly spraying and spreading. One time my daugters soccer game was played on a recently treated field. It was the kind that "sticks to the weeds" Guess what it also sticks to soccer balls, soccer cleats, and clothes and skin. The players were covered with it. I was the only one that seemed to notice. Everyone is so anesthetized by the chemicals. Can't have weed. See a bug, carpetbomb your lawn. Heck spray it in your house. Fog your back yard before a party. Eat off a table coated in chemicals. Better than seeing a bug.

My wife & I took a wonderful vacation to Belize last spring and one subject of conversation the locals would talk about was how the incidence of cancer was so much less there. I'm not sure how true it was, but the lifestyle really brought to focus what we're doiing to our environment here.

Posted on: 2013/1/25 22:09


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna

Joined:
2009/6/11 1:27
From York, PA
Posts: 1413
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Quote:

Fishidiot wrote:
This is nonsense.
Everyone who fishes the river knows this and the reason for the bass decline in that section of river has not been identified. Yes, there are lesions but More study is needed.
With respect to juveniles: they are still there, just in depressed numbers in the lower Susky. It is hyperbole and irresponsible to assert that there are no YOY bass. This issue is studied/surveyed every year.


Fishidiot,

I fly fish the very same water as you do. I can see the drastic change in the lower Susky. When the OP said no YOY, he meant "almost" no more healthy YOY. They are much more efficient with sampling now a days!

The Warmwater Jam, last year, and nobody caught any smallmouth? and that was WAY upstream? Don't you think that is a little strange?

Last year Maurice posted a report when he went to Wrightsville. He only caught one small sickly channel cat? Everybody used to catch dozens there with a fly rod? ..... even me!

The Susquehanna has crashed! For you to say "nonsense, there are still YOY" is only mixing up the idiots in charge of fixing it....... if it can be fixed at all??

Now that I have my photobucket fixed, I'll have to post some pix of years ago when I would catch >100 healthy smallmouth with my fly rod in the clean, fish filled Lower Susquehanna.


Posted on: 2013/1/27 15:18


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna
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Joined:
2006/9/9 17:32
From Gettysburg
Posts: 9108
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Quote:

1wt wrote:
When the OP said no YOY, he meant "almost" no more healthy YOY.
For you to say "nonsense, there are still YOY" is only mixing up the idiots in charge of fixing it....... if it can be fixed at all??
I'll have to post some pix of years ago when I would catch >100 healthy smallmouth with my fly rod in the clean, fish filled Lower Susquehanna.


1WT,
Perhaps that is indeed what he meant to say.

I would really prefer a scientific and honest discussion of the problems in the lower Susky - not hyperbole. Here's the latest and best info on YOY. It shows the poor recruitment....but the YOY are indeed there.
2012 YOY Susky
Scroll down to Fig 4.

Spare us the hundred fish day stories.

Posted on: 2013/1/27 16:20

Edited by Fishidiot on 2013/1/27 19:29:52


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna

Joined:
2009/6/11 1:27
From York, PA
Posts: 1413
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Quote:

Fishidiot wrote:
1WT,
Perhaps that is indeed what he meant to say.
I would really prefer a scientific and honest discussion of the problems in the lower Susky - not hyperbole.
Spare us the hundred fish day stories.


Fishidiot,

So .......... you want to educate me?

"I don't need no education,
I don't need no thought control,
No dark sarcasm from the moderators,
Hey, Fishidiot, leave the 1wt alone,
All in all, you're just another Brick in the Wall"

Posted on: 2013/1/28 1:46


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 8917
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Quote:

1wt wrote:
Quote:

Fishidiot wrote:
This is nonsense.
Everyone who fishes the river knows this and the reason for the bass decline in that section of river has not been identified. Yes, there are lesions but More study is needed.
With respect to juveniles: they are still there, just in depressed numbers in the lower Susky. It is hyperbole and irresponsible to assert that there are no YOY bass. This issue is studied/surveyed every year.


Fishidiot,

I fly fish the very same water as you do. I can see the drastic change in the lower Susky. When the OP said no YOY, he meant "almost" no more healthy YOY. They are much more efficient with sampling now a days!

The Warmwater Jam, last year, and nobody caught any smallmouth? and that was WAY upstream? Don't you think that is a little strange?

Last year Maurice posted a report when he went to Wrightsville. He only caught one small sickly channel cat? Everybody used to catch dozens there with a fly rod? ..... even me!

The Susquehanna has crashed! For you to say "nonsense, there are still YOY" is only mixing up the idiots in charge of fixing it....... if it can be fixed at all??

Now that I have my photobucket fixed, I'll have to post some pix of years ago when I would catch >100 healthy smallmouth with my fly rod in the clean, fish filled Lower Susquehanna.



Hey 1wt,

No doubt the lower Susky is in bad shape for SMBs. If you check out figure 1 on this link, you'll see that the NB of the Susky is still in good shape.

Mostly operator error on the WW Jam last year. Actually the fishermen were definitely "off", but so were the fish.

Everyone needs education....it's never too late to learn sumpthin'!

Posted on: 2013/1/28 7:05

Edited by afishinado on 2013/1/28 7:33:12


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 17:32
From Gettysburg
Posts: 9108
Online
Quote:

1wt wrote:
Fishidiot,

So .......... you want to educate me?

"I don't need no education,
I don't need no thought control,
No dark sarcasm from the moderators,
Hey, Fishidiot, leave the 1wt alone,
All in all, you're just another Brick in the Wall"


Okay - good comeback 1WT. I do like Pink Floyd.

Posted on: 2013/1/28 7:33


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna

Joined:
2009/2/23 16:32
From Wrightsville
Posts: 268
Offline
I know far less than many of the other people on this post.

The decline of the SMB very closely mirrored the decline of dandelions in neighborhoods across the state.

I was one of those neighbors who you would hate to live beside. Never used "weed and feed" or anything herbicide related. When I first moved in the bass were everywhere and so where the dandelions. When I left the were no dandelions and there were no bass.

It was kind of suburban culture thing that happened. Whether it had anything to do with SMB is anyones guess.

Posted on: 2013/1/28 21:55


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna

Joined:
2011/3/21 21:41
From Central PA
Posts: 33
Offline
3 things to think about. They may have been mentioned before but I did not read every post. First, the overall warming trend that we are in right now is a factor. I would wager a bet that the river is hitting warmer average temperatures than ever before. My home river the Juniata hit 90 degrees in places last summer on more than one occasion. Second, are sewage treatment plants and other discharges being monitored ("treated" fracking fluid)? Last, urban and suburban runoff is occuring at an alarming rate. Example would be the Selinsgrove strip. In my life time this went from a few businesses mixed amongst farm fields to a 6 mile long 2 mile wide stretch of blacktop. Another great example would be the Carlisle Pike. Just thoughts, not facts!

PARA

Posted on: 2013/1/28 22:25


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna

Joined:
2009/6/11 1:27
From York, PA
Posts: 1413
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Quote:

Paraleptalata wrote:
First, the overall warming trend the Juniata hit 90 degrees in places ("treated" fracking fluid)? Last, urban and suburban runoff is occuring at an alarming rate. Just thoughts, not facts!


Para,

+1

I agree. I used to fly fish the lower Susquehanna all the time. I saw a huge fish kill back in 03' when I was wet wading upstream from the Statue in Perdix, and I saw with my own eyes thousands of YOY with a white fungus spot on their back gasping and dying in the near 90 degree water.

When I post, on this forum and others, most attack me for telling the truth!

Fishidiot, and others, post some charts that are good for me to see. I try to keep hope....... maybe this year things will be a little better?

All the runoff now has pharmaceutical drugs, fracking chemicals, sewage from the outdated sewage plants, rock snotgrass, and silt everywhere. It used to be a "world class" gravel bottom paradise only 30 years ago!

I keep my fingers crossed, and I shouldn't complain ...... God knows that I have already caught way more than my share! It's just hard for some of us who experienced the Heavenly Paradise to keep our mouths shut while this beautiful river dies right in front of me!

Posted on: 2013/1/28 23:55


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 17:32
From Gettysburg
Posts: 9108
Online
Paralep,
Your theories make sense - as it stands right now, nothing should be ruled out for further study or investigation.

Regarding the warm temps, the PFBC does consider this as a possible reason for low bass survival. The bass crash in the lower Susky pre-dates the fracking boom.

What folks need to remember is that we're talking about the lower Susky where bass are in such bad shape. Warm weather, urban sprawl, lawn chemicals, endocrine pollution, aging sewage treatment plants etc.......all of these are problematic throughout the state and are common in other big river systems. Bass are doing fine in the North and West Branch as well as the Delaware and Allegheny watersheds for the most part. If the problem is "pollution" as everyone likes to contend (and I don't rule this out)......why are the macros not affected? The river is loaded with mayflies. Turn over a rock in Harrisburg and it's swarming with mayflies, caddis, crayfish, helgys etc. However, bass either can't successfully spawn or the YOY don't survive the summer in sufficient numbers to bring the population back.

What is different in the lower Susky that isn't happening in the lower reaches of the other big Mid Atlantic rivers?

Posted on: 2013/1/29 7:42


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna

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2011/4/12 17:23
From Lancaster Co.
Posts: 1129
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So the State DEP says there's no evidence to list the river as impaired.

http://lancasteronline.com/article/lo ... not-on-impaired-list.html

Posted on: 2013/1/29 9:27
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Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna

Joined:
2008/12/29 12:54
From Frederick, MD & New Philly, OH
Posts: 445
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Floods, ag runoff, water treatment, industry, and increased river temps are the problem. High water limits the success of the spawn. Ag runoff fills the system with unhealthy chemicals and promotes the algae blooms along with dissolved oxygen. The treatment of water isn't perfect. It's a known fact that if a treatment plants culture goes bad then the sewage is dumped. Furthermore, birth control pills residues are finding its way into smallies. Industry that isn't being properly regulated will dump bad water into the system. Then in the summer, the temps have been terrible. Add these factors together and you have the answer to failed spawning success below Williamsport.

Posted on: 2013/1/29 12:17
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Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna

Joined:
2011/9/13 11:13
From Flourtown, PA
Posts: 201
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The fishermen were not "off" at the Jam. The river was. It's a pathetic excuse for a smallmouth river now. Even upstream. This area is screwed for smallies until we figure out what we are doing that is wiping them out or helping the cause. I can promise you that what happened to us last summer does not happen on the James or the New. Wind, sure, but not the skunking.

Posted on: 2013/1/30 10:14


Re: end of smallmouth on the susquehanna
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Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 8917
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You were OFF.....Surf!

The NB of the River still holds a lot of SMBs according to the many surveys done by the FBC and also the catch rate of many spinners.

For some reason I can't explain, the SMBs on big rivers that still hold a lot of fish (Lower D and Upper Susky)have been very elusive when FFing. I've fished with Surf and well as other good Smallie FFers. We had a flotilla of really good FFers for the WW Jam.

Topwater action for the last two seasons has been non-existent most of the time, and even aggressive fishing like swinging and stripping buggers and streamers failed most of the time. It seems you needed to fish low and slow with smaller flies and coax the smallies into biting. What happened to the fish that smacked anything that came their way? Strange.

Posted on: 2013/1/31 7:39



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