SE PA SMB

Paulson

Paulson

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
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241
Anyone been on to any in the area? Been slow for me even on warmer streams but it is just not quite the season yet. This cold snap needs to go away, soon!
 
I didn't know that we had smallies in SE PA
 
Anyone been on to any in the area? Been slow for me even on warmer streams but it is just not quite the season yet. This cold snap needs to go away, soon!
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A few. I know there are several places and people who do OK for SMB in SEPA, but in general the Flatheads, environment and whatever else have taken a serious toll.

I know the state and some folks say there's no need to modify the kill regulations for them in SEPA because there's no verified scientific statistical evidence that harvesting them is part of the problem.

But I wonder how having more adults to reproduce (by reduced harvest) can be detrimental to assisting the SMB population regardless of what the causes for decline are.
 
I've caught a few in the Neshaminy while fishing for trout years ago. I'm going to fish there this Sunday if the water is not too blown out.
 
They are in the neshaminy as noted above. The Delware and Schuykill also are pretty good if you know where to look.
 
Also tohickon, tinnacum, (sp) N. branch neshamminy, east branck perk too..
 
Springer, having more adults is not detrimental to the fish population; it is just unnecessary. It is a rare fishery in which the number of young (YOY) produced is limited by the abundance of adults...smallmouth bass or trout. Rather, it is the weather conditions and the stability of those conditions during spawning and for weeks afterward that determines year class strength.
 
Springer,

I agree SMB fishing in SEPA has become pretty poor.

You really answered your own question as to why:

I know there are several places and people who do OK for SMB in SEPA, but in general the Flatheads, environment and whatever else have taken a serious toll.
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The habitat has really declined, especially in the Schuylkill River, the lower Perk among other SE rivers and streams. Over development along the stream and watershed causing the loss of riparian cover and porous surfaces, plus water quality issues from overtaxed sewage treatment plants is likely the culprit. Also, I'm sure the introduction of huge predator fish like flatheads hasn't helped either.

I really doubt that C&R regulations will have an appreciable effect on the SMB population since very few fish are harvested.
 
I don't think flatheads have the first thing to do with it. The James and New are chock full of the damn things, and both always have been. They've also always been chock full of smallies. So I don't think they are an issue. They do, however have a much higher tolerance for awful water, so the presence of flatheads and the lack of smallies makes me think the river is just too hot and dirty. Fine in a hooker, or in a Martini, but hell on smallmouth.
 
LoL - maybe Snakeheads will be the warm water target of choice in 10 years. :)
 
springer1 wrote:
LoL - maybe Snakeheads will be the warm water target of choice in 10 years. :)
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+1^
 
SurfCowboyXX wrote:
The James and New are chock full of the damn things, and both always have been.
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Flatheads are native to the Mississippi drainage which includes the New River, but not the James River. They've probably been in the James for only a few decades and are regarded as an invasive species (or a great game fish depending on whom you ask). When I lived in VA about a decade ago, there were certainly anglers I talked to who felt felt that the introduction of flatheads and blue cats had been detrimental to bass populations in the lower James. Whether this is true or not I have no idea.

Nevertheless, the point stands that flatheads and smallies have co-existed for centuries in the rivers of the Mississippi watershed.
 
SurfCowboyXX wrote:
I don't think flatheads have the first thing to do with it. The James and New are chock full of the damn things, and both always have been. They've also always been chock full of smallies. So I don't think they are an issue. They do, however have a much higher tolerance for awful water, so the presence of flatheads and the lack of smallies makes me think the river is just too hot and dirty. Fine in a hooker, or in a Martini, but hell on smallmouth.
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No doubt true in healthy rivers, but where SMB are struggling, adding huge predator to an already dwindling population of fish put them down for the count in many parts of the River (especially the lower sections).

A healthy breeding population of SMB could more than hold their own against predators. If the habitat and water quality is good, all fish will find their niche and thrive.
 
3-4 years ago, the SMB fishing on the D from Easton to New Hope was very good. Over the past few years, I have seen less SMB and more trout and stripers.
 
I think it's water quality. Flatheads can thrive in awful water that would kill smallies. We have flatheads, we are losing smallies, and I don't think anyone believes the rivers are in better shape than they were 10 years ago.
 
SurfCowboyXX wrote:
I think it's water quality. Flatheads can thrive in awful water that would kill smallies. We have flatheads, we are losing smallies, and I don't think anyone believes the rivers are in better shape than they were 10 years ago.
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I see this claim a lot re: water quality. There must be data out there that proves it, yet i've never seen it. Where is everyone getting the idea that water quality is worse now than 10yrs ago?
 
And just to clarify, I'm talking specifically SE PA. The skuke, delaware, perk, etc. Obv susky is fubar'd.
 
3-4 years ago, the SMB fishing on the D from Easton to New Hope was very good. Over the past few years, I have seen less SMB and more trout and stripers.
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theres your answer on the delaware, stripers. they are the native to the river and are just taking back what was theirs in the past. A 20+ in. striper will eat smb along with all the other fish in the river. They are the dominent predator.
 
Stripers don't eat smallies, really. No when you have the kind of baitfish base that the Delaware has. They aren't going to expend the kind of energy it takes to catch a bass when they have schools of other baitfish to eat. And when they open their mouths they are able to capture many, not just one. They will eat the hell out of some trout though, but I don't think that is an issue down here. The striper population hasn't grown in the Delaware enough to explain the smallie issue, anyway.
 
sandfly wrote:
theres your answer on the delaware, stripers. they are the native to the river and are just taking back what was theirs in the past. A 20+ in. striper will eat smb along with all the other fish in the river. They are the dominent predator.
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I'm with you on the natives taking back what was theirs but I don't think eating them is the reason for the decline. I've snorkeled just outside a small trib that dumps cold water into the river. I witnessed 30"+ stripers eating anything that came into their path including smb and RT.
Not sure about water quality either as I've caught many trout including ST well below "trout waters".
 
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