Where Did the Mud Come From on the WB Octorara On Sunday

[fadeaway263]

We started to fish the "Meadows" of the West Branch at 10:00AM Sunday March 21st and the water was clear as could be. At about 1PM a wall of muddy water started moving through the stream. We waited an hour and left as it just kept getting worse. I don't know of any dams above where we fished. Any ideas? All of the guys on the stream were talking about how strange this was.

 

[wgmiller]

Lots of farms down in that area... Perhaps there was a 'discharge'???

 

[salmonoid]

Only anecdotal, but fished Octorara up through the woods Friday and the stream bed actually seemed to be pretty cleaned out of most muck and mire, at least compared to some of the years past that I've fished it.

As to what might be kicking up the mud? Aside from the obvious farm discharge, perhaps someone playing in the stream with their skidloader or bulldozer (although there isn't a lot of place to do that in the FFO section and above 472, its woods for a ways too)? Or maybe a beaver excavating a new den in the stream bank? I have seen beavers and muskrats on the Octorara. Maybe there was a massive sucker spawn?

I fished Donegal yesterday and was amazed at the muddiness of the water 45 minutes after we had worked our way upstream, kicking up mud in the process. I would have thought it would have washed away by then.

 

[Maurice]

A non storm related discoloration of water should be reported to the DEP. Waters in the Commonwealth in the Approved Trout Water Program are under a moritorium for instream work from March 1 through June 15.

If it were me I would have driven up to the next bridge and the next and then the next until I found either the cause or clear water again and made the call to report it.

It takes a lot of distrubance to discolor a creek over a long distance. Whatever caused it was likely in violation of DEP regulation.

 

[Mariner]

Report it. I can't think of any natural occurrence in that part of the world that would change the river on a scale you described. Incidentally, how does it look/fish now? I was planning going tomorrow.

 

[fadeaway263]

When we left on Sunday we crossed over Kirkwood Pike and drove on Street Road towards Route 896. We crossed over a tributary that was also very muddy. I forgot to mention that there were some young teenage boys with a stringer full of fish they caught with night crawlers in the FFO section just above the bridge on Pusseyville Road. God that ticks me off. While waiting for the mud to clear we were talking about this with a guy who works in the YB flyshop. He was a former game warden. He told us a story about a guy who got shot and killed for challenging a guy who was keeping fish from a CRO section of a stream in I think he said Adams County. I guess I need to start "packing" when I fish.

 

[Maurice]

fadeaway263 wrote:
When we left on Sunday we crossed over Kirkwood Pike and drove on Street Road towards Route 896. We crossed over a tributary that was also very muddy. I forgot to mention that there were some young teenage boys with a stringer full of fish they caught with night crawlers in the FFO section just above the bridge on Pusseyville Road. God that ticks me off. While waiting for the mud to clear we were talking about this with a guy who works in the YB flyshop. He was a former game warden. He told us a story about a guy who got shot and killed for challenging a guy who was keeping fish from a CRO section of a stream in I think he said Adams County. I guess I need to start "packing" when I fish.

Yes, pack a cell phone and you could have reported TWO violations. Stewardship isn't about gunfights or storytelling, its about making the call when you see something wrong.

 

[troutbert]

I agree with the idea of reporting these things. Even though a few days have passed, I think it is still worth making the phone call. A WCO could ask around and still possibly find out what caused the muddy water. My guess is that someone got in the creek with a machine to "open it up." That happens a lot after high flows.

Same thing with the poachers. Often poachers habitually come back to particular areas. If they are catching fish and nothing happens, they come back. So, if you notify a WCO he can check out that area more frequently and perhaps catch them.

"Reporting to the Internet" doesn't count. Pick up the phone.

 

[pcray1231]

I have no problem with reporting them.

But I will say that I've seen landslides do this. A few years back on Elk Creek, a cliff face just fell into the water, and it took most of a day to clear back up. There are natural explanations.

There are of course, unnatural explanations too, doesn't hurt to report it.

 

[pennsadventures]

i fished it on sunday too from blackrock road down around the bend...i noticed that it was super muddy. i was there saturday and it was gin clear. my buddy and i were saying the same thing of how bad it looked. we fished it till dark and the stream cleared up around 4 or 5 but it was stange!

 

[fadeaway263]

Maurice wrote:

Yes, pack a cell phone and you could have reported TWO violations. Stewardship isn't about gunfights or storytelling, its about making the call when you see something wrong.

Which part of my post did you not understand about the guy who was shot and killed because he was a "steward". WADR you are not living in the real world. Road Rage Flash mobs in Philly? I am a FF not a law enforcement officer. I am a 59 year old guy who couldn't physically challenge a 16 year old kid. I know my limitations. As for "stewardship" I walk out of a stream with 2 or 3 littered beer cans or water bottles... to me that is "stewardship". Frederick help me here will you?

 

[jayL]

Call after you leave the stream then.

 

[Maurice]

I never suggested you confront anyone...you are the one who didn't read my post.

 

[fadeaway263]

Like I have that phone number on speed dial. If the PFBC was that interested perhaps they should put the WCO's phone numbers on the actual license instead of that goofy looking trout stamp. I wonder if this information is contained in that little pamphlet you get with your license which I must confess I have not read in years.

 

[Maurice]

Its always somebody elses fault, problem or responsibility.

Thats OK, keep picking up the trash....thats helpful too.

Here is how personal improvement works.....

Step one: recognize problem. (Don't care)

Step two: Find out what it takes to change it. (Care)

In between one and two you can fill in the blanks with taking the time to call the WCO or walk away and complain about it here. Its your choice but don't be surprised if people offer advice on how to handled it.

 

[fadeaway263]

Unfortunately it seems I use my net to gather up more sunken beer cans than fish. :-( I often wonder how tires appear in the middle of a stream when a road isn't even in sight. And we know it's the dang canoeists and kayackers that are dropping the beer cans into the middle of the stream. Tough to police against that. I often think of the crying Indian commercial when I see trash in the stream. And the irony is the Indian was in a canoe!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG7tHrNM

 

[Maurice]

Fade,

Tires and MOST other trash in and along the stream corridor is flood debris. People don't for the most tpart, walk along the stream and drop stuff....it gets picked up during high water from culverts and back yards and washed into the stream. Folks toss old tired over hillsides and they come to rest in the shallows and then are wisked away by high waters to be left in places you wonder how they got there.

The biggest litterers of waterways are motorists. Just take a look at the medians on a highway after the winter. Its disgusting. It doesn't make me sad, it makes me angry. I have said this before....in the summer after a week or so dry spell stop at a left turn signal light on a divided highway and look out the window on the ground. You will find piles of cigarette butts a car length apart for 4-5 lengths. Spaced perfectly where the inconsiderate SOBs who smoke and use the outdoors as their ashtray toss them.

Some people in high places feel picking up trash is beneath them. That they didn't put it there.....why should they clean up after someone else? I am deeply offended by that and reconsider their committment to conservation after hearing that.

 

[jayL]

Put the WCO's number on speed dial. It takes ten seconds to program the number.

As for the trash removal, it's the only reason I bring a net too... :-\

 

[JakesLeakyWaders]

I know all about picking up trash, when I got D.U.I. several years ago I requested to do my cummunity service at local county parks.

I single handedly picked up decades of half buried cans and bottles in the the bushes and brush along walking paths in John Rudy Park in York Co.

I was astonished that some of these ancient bottles and old faded beer cans, (you know old thick cans with the tear drop shaped opening) were still sitting in the bushes and no one picked them up.

John Rudy park is a central location for maintainence and equipment for York Co. Parks and there is a crew of at least 8 workers show up every day. Several of them work on the park grounds daily. These guys take took 4 half hour to 40 minute breaks every day I was there where they just sat around with their feet kicked up.

I can't understand how they expect to get anything done when they only work for about an hour and fifteen minutes at a time.

I should have gone back for a job.

 

[Fredrick]

I think that the WCO has a better chance of catching someone if you don't say anything to the poachers and just report it . It gives the WCO more time to drive to the location if he is able .