Trout fishing on spring creeks

[wgmiller]

Being a newbie to fly fishing, my limited experience has been on two small Lancaster County streams - Donegal Creek and Lititz Run. These are two spring creeks both with stocked (and some wild) trout in them.

That being said, I've casted fly line about a half dozen times thus far and have been trout-skunked every time. I've caught a few chubs, but that's about it. The Lititz Run trout are pellet fed (as well as whatever natural food they eat) and seem to be pretty spooky. The Donegal trout are a lot less spooky, but I'm still finding them a challenge to catch.

When I first started fishing and fished the open waters with bait, I had no problem hooking up and landing some nice browns. Artificial lures yielded some nice rainbows. But since I've moved over to fly fishing exclusively, my ability to catch trout has all but evaporated.

I'm self-taught when it comes to casting, but for the most part my technique should be decent enough to catch fish (I don't slap the line down, etc.). My fly selection has been fairly basic consisting of San Juan worms, egg patterns, nymphs, etc. Haven't really done any dry fly fishing as of yet other than messing around here and there.

Is fly fishing that much less productive than bait fishing? Does removing the "scent factor" decrease overall fishing success? Is fishing small spring creeks that much more challenging?

I can see fish and cast to them, but they've pretty much been laughing at me. I'd also have to guess that perhaps this time of the year may have something to do with it as well.

Just looking for a little feedback on trout fishing on spring creeks...

 

[bushwacker]

Don't give up! I think everyone has a hard time starting fly fishing. There is just so much to learn. Keep learning as much as you can about every aspect of the sport and choose your battles based on your skill level. Donegal is a very tight stream which makes a delicate presentation difficult. Avoid it for now. Lititz run fish are very difficult keeping with traditional spring creek characteristics. Avoid it for now or you will loose interest in fly fishing. Target stocked fish in larger water where you have adequate room to cast. Rainbows seem to be a little easier. IMO, fishing is more difficult this time of year...not exactly sure why. If you don't already, learn how to nymph fish. You'll catch alot more fish.

 

[Fishidiot]

I'll second bushwacker's advice. Limestoners are, for the most part, more difficult to fish - esp if they have a lot of vegetation and slower currents. These spring creeks are also more likely to be domintated by wild brown trout and more heavily fished. The advantages of limestoners are that they fish consistantly well throughout the year and have stable fish populations. Try focusing more on waters that have stocked fish, esp freshly stocked fish during the March - May months and you will have success. You mentioned the flies you have been nymphing with (sometimes called "junk" flies) and they will certainly catch fish, including supposedly sophisticated wild fish. Learning to high stick nymph fish will certainly help and someone from this board ought to be able to help with your technique. There are also videos available - anything by Joe Humphrys is good. He is IMHO the deadliest nymph fisher around. Study these videos over the winter and practice on some waters with stocked fish that holdover like Clarks, Manada, or Yellow Breeches. Stick to deeper runs with good current to practice your nymphing. Finally, if you do decide to hit the limestoners, try a big black Wooly Bugger fished down and across with a slow- hop retrieve. This method won't get a lot of fish but you will move fish and see them and this is good for confidence and will help you locate big fish which you can later target with more finesse methods. And, along the way, the big streamer will hook some large fish too, and this method works in limestoners all year.

 

[Chaz]

Get some woolly buggers in colors from white to black, make sure they have some flash in them, then go and fish them as you would the artificials or live bait. You WILL catch some trout.
If all else fails, tie some pellet flies or have someone tie them for you.

 

[Sparse_Grey_Hack]

wg, i agree with bushwacker. Do not give up. You need to know in your soul that flies actually work and work very very well. I believe they work better than anything else over the long haul. The only way to really know this is to actually have it happen to you over time. This comes only from time astream. It's confidence that is needed. If you don't truly believe that hunk of material at the end of your line works, you won't cast it with the attention and authority needed.

I was weened on freestoners. My turning point was when I found a hole with many stocked trout that I didn't know were there. At some point, I started working a fly wet-fly style and caught over a dozen trout out of that hole, completely mutilating the three wet flies I had with me. It was my first hint at the amazing power and effectiveness of the right fly at the right time. And, as others have mentioned, stocked trout can be real suckers for flies. especially freshly stocked ones.

But so can native limestoners. The difference is the spring stream trout usually have much more food in the water and are much more selective requiring closer imitation to that food in both size, shape, color, and presentation.

I'm of the opinion that if I see a trout, that trout probably can see me. If the angle and position is such they do not see me, then it's not an issue. If they do see me and they are used to seeing humans around, they may ignore my presence as a danger. A prime example of this was Fisherman's Paradise where I've caught decent sized browns that were right in front of me, inches from shore. Otherwise, they know I am there and I'm convinced they exercise caution in such a situation. I've also noticed their concern in my presence decreases with the depth of water they are in.

Get into dry fly fishing. You may need some dries of varying sizes and types from terrestrials, to obnoxious creations that imitate nothing imaginable, to the best flies you can find or tie that imitate hatching flies. Caddis and the basic mayfly dries are a must, with terrestrials close behind as the season progresses. I found trout on freestoners much easier to catch, in my earlier days dry fly fishing, than limestone trout. If you see a trout feeding on the surface, I truly believe that it is yours if you do the right things. Sometimes that means the perfect cast with the perfect fly. But more often, perfection is not required. Why? I've caught many trout from limestone streams with dries and I'm not anywhere near perfect.

But most of all, keep doing it. But bring with you not only an arsenal of flies but an arsenal of ideas. These ideas come mostly from books and magazine articles and web sites like this one. Ideas can raise your confidence and change everything. When the fishing seems tough, I count on myself to come up with a solution. I arrive at one over half the time.

And never forget, trout must eat and are eating something. Figure out what it is. Turn over rocks and look. Study the surface and see what's floating by. Look in the air above the stream and in spider webs on shore. And don't forget streamers. It seems there's always a trout or two around who will be interested in at least chasing a streamer if not taking a good whack at one.

 

[wgmiller]

Thanks for the feedback fellas, it's greatly appreciated! Rest assured that I am "hooked" on fly fishing and won't be giving up anytime soon. Anything worth working for will be much more enjoyable in the long run. If fly fishing were easy, everyone would be doing it and that feeling of accomplishment wouldn't be there.

I asked "Santa" for Mike Heck's book "Spring Creek Strategies" and we'll see if he delivers. I try to read everything I can about this hobby of fly fishing and the internet has yielded much of that information. I also purchased the LL Bean book and have read that front-to-back once already. This definitely isn't something you learn in one week, one year or one lifetime. It's more like a life journey.

The tough part about finding other waterways is that the Donegal and Lititz Run are so convenient. I live in the watershed of the Donegal and can be on the creek in less than five minutes. Lititz Run is a perfect stop after my part-time job. I try to fish creeks that are convenient without making a whole day trip out it. Codorus Creek TT section is on the way home from work as well and I've stopped there once or twice (before I took up fly fishing though).

Just watching the videos of a trout rising to strike a fly is pretty incredible. I can only imagine how cool it is when it's the end of your line the trout is nailing. I've only experienced a jumping brown once and I thought that was spectacular...

I should also pair up with someone who actually knows what they're doing and watch them for a bit. That should provide valuable insight into all the intricacies of fly fishing. I also plan on hitting a pond or two to fish for panfish. The whole art of taking a fish to reel when you have a pile of line at your feet needs a lot of work.

Lastly, reading this forum has really helped out my learning curve. There are a lot of great people willing to share their tips and tricks.

 

[pcray1231]

As others have said, don't give up. That first fish is an amazing confidence boost. And then the first multi-fish day, then the first time you outfish the bait guys, etc.

In the end, its a good question on whether fly fishing is more successful than bait fishing. Depends on the situation I guess. Fly fishing IS more versatile than bait fishing. When you get those fish that are honed in on one particular source of food, rarely does bait match it, but with a much wider variety of flies available, you can usually come pretty close. But when the fish are dumb and hitting anything, everyone will catch fish, but I think the bait guys will get a few more for one reason. When a fish hits bait and the fishermen misses it, it will always come back again. When a fish hits a fly and the fishermen misses, often it won't come back.

Flyfishing is considerably more complicated, and therein lies the fun. You actually have to learn about the fish and the stream to succeed, and end up with a much more enjoyable experience. It also means its a significant learning curve, and you never really get to the top. To me, the journey is what makes it so fun. With bait, I had reached what I felt was about as good as it gets, with flies I'm nowhere near that and while others are above me, I don't think anyone can reach the point where they're not still learning. Also advantageous is that you don't have to deal with bait. No lugging minnow buckets around, much less constant baiting, no wading back to shore to get more, no waiting for the bait store to open in the morning. Just grab your stuff and head to the stream, the end.

Anyway, regarding your troubles. Several things you always ask yourself. On the observation end, its are they eating, what time of day are they eating, what are they eating, and at what depth are they eating it? Then for your presentation, do I have the right imitation (size/color/etc.), am I getting it to the right depth, and am I presenting it correctly (drag free for the flies you mentioned). Read books, watch video's. As was mentioned, anything by Joe Humphries (book = trout tactics and several videos) is top-notch. But my best advice is to 1. Find an experienced fishing partner to speed the learning curve and 2. Fish a location where that experienced fisherman has had recent success.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear wgmiller,

You take me back to my freshman year at PSU in 1978.

I was always a fisherman but I was determined to become a fly fisherman. I'd caught plenty of bass and sunnies on the fly rod but never a trout.

So I went to Flyfisher's Paradise when it just a small room in the Lemont, PA Post Office and threw myself at the mercy of Steve Sywensky. Steve sold me a fly tying kit and hand drew the instructions for a muskrat nymph, a gold ribbed hare's ear nymph, a leadwing coachman wetfly, and a white maribou streamer.

With those 4 patterns and some coaching from Steve and his partner at the shop Dan Shields I kept plugging and eventually it all came together.

It was November, Spring Creek was high and muddy but I was determined. Eventually I hooked and landed a trout on a muskrat nymph I tied myself, I'll admit I used one of those Cortland roll on strike indicators to assist me, but that fish was all mine.

I'd suggest you take 3 or 4 flies like I did when I started out and learn how to use them. Those 4 flies I started out with still work and still catch plenty of fish.

Regards,
Tim Murphy

 

[Fishidiot]

Tim,
Yeah, Dan and Steve were (and still are) simply awesome.

 

[bushwacker]

wgmiller, I'm from your neck of the woods...lancaster. I've been fly fishing for about 4 years so I'm kinda green too but do manage to catch fish regularly and I've learned some basic tricks that work on the local streams. If you want, I'd be happy to wet a line with you sometime.

 

[MKern]

Spring creeks aren't the esiest places to catch fish, especially in mid summer to now.
Springtime stockies should be easier.

Hang in there -- one day it will just click and you'll catch fish consistantly. Just wait for the day when you catch fish every cast (BTW those situations are more the fish than the angler).

 

[FarmerDave]

TimMurphy wrote:

I was always a fisherman but I was determined to become a fly fisherman. I'd caught plenty of bass and sunnies on the fly rod but never a trout.

Tim Murphy

So Tim, what you seem to be saying is you aren't a fly angler until you have caught trout on a fly rod?

I never figured you to be a trout snob.

:-D

Wgmiller, these guys know their crap when it comes to the spring creeks. I don't. But I'll still offer up a suggestion. If you want instant gratification, right now, go to any mountain freestone that has a decent gradient for the native brookies or even stocked trout. If the wild brookies don't see you, they will hit just about anything. IMHO, they are easier to catch than even stocked trout. Those freestone streams are a great place to learn.

But then, you probably already knew that from your bait and hardware days.

Don't wait too long though. Those streams are tough once the water temp drops below a certain level.

 

[MKern]

I agree with dave in that brookies are easier to catch than stockies.
However, I think the challange is in the stalking the fish. When I first started brookie fishing, 2 fish in 4-5 hours was good.
You still need a ton of practice/experience to catch brookies -- similar to wild browns in spring creeks.
Just a differenent degree of difficulty.

 

[pcray1231]

Yeah, with brookies, the challenge is not spooking them. In low clear conditions or in brushy areas, it can be really difficult. And its frustrating in the sense that you end up spending more time rescuing your fly from trees and brush than you do fishing. But with healthy flows and with a high canopy, it can be real easy too.

But if he's looking for confidence, stay away from streams like Penns, the Letort, the Breeches, etc. Those streams can kick your butt, even the best fishermen. Go after higher productivity streams, Spring Creek, high canopy native brookie streams, or any larger stocked stream (soon after a stocking).

While things are slow right now, you're always welcome to join me on the Tully sometime. For much of the year, its downright easy.

 

[AlwaysWading]

Wgmiller:

Looks like you have a ton of advice and all of it is great to follow. Starting fresh with fly fishing is like starting most everything, only a bit more difficult from my point of view. You can learn to throw a ball and hit the glove almost every time. However you can learn to cast a fly line, have the fly hit right where you want and still watch it drift right past a trout who gulps something he was interested in right after your fly passed him. Success on a trout stream, native or stocked starts with simply being there enjoying nature. Then you learn what flies work best for you, what casting methods provide you fish on the line, and the frustrations begin to melt away. Remember though that getting skunked is part of the sport, all of us hit that empty handed spot from time to time. For me starting the sport at 46 was tough although spending weeks on end in the stream learning from from a highly skilled friend brought success around in short fashion. Today I'll hold my own on all the streams I climb into on a regular basis and it doesn't take long to learn the new ones I may encounter with someone.

Here is my simple pattern that I use almost every time I hit the stream. I always start with a big winged dry and as we move towards and through winter I will drag a red or pink (my own hand tied) San Juan behind it. Then it is simply move up or down in the size of the dry and maybe change up the color a bit. I work riffles with that setup, in water I know should show results. Then I may change out, remove the dry and throw a nymph on and let that run the bottom a bit, with or without an indicator. I'll fish side by side with a friend who will take an entirely different approach and we both will catch fish. If we swap tactics we don't see the same success results. Bottom line, learn what works best for you and that is the initial stepping stone to your success. Other folks may look at your setup and chuckle to themselves, but watch them scratch their heads when you net and release that first, then second and third trout.

Keep climbing in the stream and watch your success grow.