Stream difficulty

[JustFish]

In the stream reports section there has been some debate over a stream that the fish are fed dog food on a regular basis. The debate was that it is one of the most difficult streams to fish in PA, which I am not debating. What I didn't agree with is that it is being compared with other difficult streams in PA. I didn't agree b/c the fish aren't as inclined to feed on flies b/c there being fed dog food.

To me this isn't the angler or his tackle but rather a man made obstacle. So how can you compare the difficulty to a stream like the Letort. The stream is Lititz. Which i have never fished. I have seen pictures of the fish and there are some huge ones in there. But the point is that they didn't get that big through survival of the fittest but rather through a high calorie diet like dog food.

Apparently a farmer dumps in a boat load of dog food everyday. IMO I just don't see how you can compare a stream like this to other classic wild trout streams where the fish are eating natural forage.


What do the rest of you guys think?

 

[tomgamber]

JustFish wrote:


What do the rest of you guys think?

About which part...if its hard to catch fish, its hard to catch fish...why is irrelevant you want to compare only streams where fish are fed and only streams where fish feed on their own. But I'm sure it would be very difficult to catch fish under those circumstances.

 

[JackM]

I enjoy streams without difficult fish.

 

[wildtrout2]

JackM wrote:
I enjoy streams without difficult fish.

I couldn't agree more. That's one of the reasons I love fishing Class A Wild Trout Streams. :-D

 

[JackM]

And one of the reasons I fish for bluegill, though not on a stream.

 

[jayL]

I enjoy difficult streams, but only when the fish are wild, oddly enough.

 

[pete41]

The paradise use to feed every nite
they had some worn out breeder monsters in there
all up and down that section they would feed on minutia as there were no bigger insects hatching at that time but
they would take deer hair bugs and occasionally marabou streamers -22 fur bodied nymphs-22 and 28 fur bodied ants-jassids and other small stuff
people would fish all day with their 14-16-18 and complain that the fish were too well fed to be caught-okay-lol
they will feed-

 

[MKern]

Dog food -- that's a lot of money to be dumping into a stream every day!

As far as difficulty ---
I like days fishing for brookies and stocked fingerlings. I also like the less pressured wild brown trout streams. One correct presentation and you hook a fish. However, it does get old, and I found that I did my be progressing by fishing the tough streams (better and more creative casting and presentation & better knowledge of where to fish).

How can you ever progress, if you aren't being challanged?

 

[govtmule]

JustFish,
I would suggest checking out the stream before passing judgement on it. I was there a couple times and i'd say it was difficult, not Letort difficult but who cares anyways. I see you fish Valley, what would you consider that?

jeff

 

[JackM]

I think there are times for tough fishing and times for easy fishing and finally times for the in between. What there isn't any time for is a good skunking. I hate a good skunking.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

The Letort is just plain hard to sneak up on fish. If you can they are easy to catch.

Lititz is just plain hard to get them to eat anything.

2 different situations but can be equally challenging.

I will say this though. I never go to a difficult stream expecting to catch fish. I go expecting to enjoy a day of fishing, the outdoors and fresh air. The fish are a bonus.

As far as Lititz goes, its a "man made" stream with man made trout. The smaller fish(which there are plenty of) are still hard to catch because they are looking for pellets. The Monster Trout are doing the same but are angler wary fish. Making them even more difficult. The thing I like about Lititz Run is, where else in PA are you going to find 10 year holdover trout and holdovers in a possible 25-30+ range. Not many places like that and Lancaster County, you would think, would be really far down on that List.

Take it for what it is. Its a pretty stream, with some nice trout, in a county that needs better trout fishing. If you think about that, then how it got that way really doesnt matter ;-)

 

[littlejuniata]

Sure they can be hard to catch on a fly but all you need to do is tie on a dog pellet imo and splat it on the surface, then they are the easiest fish in the world to catch. Natural food is just a tidbit for them. they are always stuffed and overfed. Sort of like you are after a gigantic meal, you may not even want your favorite desert

Leitz mimics the old Fishermans Paradise, which was very popular in its heyday

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

you cant do that littlej.Its a C&R AFLO section.;-)

 

[tomgamber]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
you cant do that littlej.Its a C&R AFLO section.;-)

oh yeah?

 

[littlejuniata]

just make the dog pellet fly out of clipped deer hair?? Is that legal?? Hey Tom, didn't see your post, nice pellet imo!!

 

[spectorfly]

It was never said that they feed them everyday. They don't Maybe once a week. And it's not dog food, it's pellets. The kind they feed fish in a hatchery.

As stated in my other post on the suject that seems to have been started anew here even though it's been debated already:

Seeing as you haven't fished it yet I don't think you can accuratly assess it either.

They do eat natural food in there also. They don't just rely on pellets. They eat them when offered but it's not their sole diet. Minnows, freshwater shrimp, stoneflies, midges, BWO, sculpins, ect are all the diet for them.
Cast a midge in there when the trout on Lititz are rising to midges and see how many times they look at the fly but refuse it. Same goes for BWO's. Then watch them rise to the natural beside your fly.
Throw a scud in there when there is no surface activity but you see them feeding on the bottom and watch them ignore the fly time and time again.
They got big from pellets, but they haven't lived this long in there to be dumb. They've grown very smart over they years. I've seen and have run into the same on Valley and Letort.
Natural trophy's. No. But that's not what this discussion started on.
Compare the 3? Yes, I think I can, and I think I did and that's my opinion based on what I've experienced on the 3 streams, under the same conditions, with the same hatch going on and fish feeding on that hatch.

I think it's more an issue of Valley vs Lititz and Valley is his "home stream, it's the best" kinda mentallity.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Yes it is legal to use a pellet fly. But the fish usually dont react to them because they can smell the pellets. When they are first thrown in the fish wont react to them. After a minute they go nuts. Im pretty sure they can smell them.

But im not saying they dont work. Clipping the wings and hackle off of an Irresistible Adams is what i usually do. Works about 5 percent of the time.

 

[flybop]

The ranch I used to guide for had the First Cast kids from Tu stay for a weekend. There is a small lake that is stocked with cookie cutter rainbows that are often pellet fed. These fish were tough, for the kids, to catch so we decided to throw some pellets in to see what happened.

The fish went nuts for the pellets. So, after some digging I pulled out a few Goddard Caddis and the clippers. I had a couple kids cast their revised and improved Goddard out and then threw a small handful of pellets where the flies were. The fish attacked the pellets and soon there was only a couple Goddards on the surface. After being ignored the fish then turned on and smashed the pellets. This worked well enough to get all the kids to catch their first trout ever on a "fly".

 

[wgmiller]

I was given this "fly" by a gentleman who fishes Lititz Run on a regular basis. Not sure what it's made of or how it was tied. I only tried it on a limited basis in the "open water" section with no results. Soon enough I'll give it a whirl in the Conservancy and see what happens. It is missing the scent though and I'm sure that's a big part of the 'pellet experience'! (Hook size is probably a #10 or so)

 

[dryflyguy]

I know another stream where the trout are fed dog food in a certain spot. And there are some really nice fish there, that show no interest at all in hatches or conventional flies. Guys use "brown beetles" to match the dog chow hatch - they're made out of cork from wine bottles.