Special Regs. and barbless hooks?

[jreichel]

Did they do away with the use of barbless hook on Special Regulated stream sections like catch and release? It used to be part of the regs. but I could not find it any ware in the Fishing Summary or at PFBC web site. :-?

 

[Squaretail]

From what I remember barbless hooks were on waters with "Heritage" regulations. And though I never saw any anouncments it seems Heritage regulations have been abandoned.

 

[afishinado]

I believe that the barbless regulation is gone. The explanation from the PFBC was as I recall that there is no evidence that barbless hooks reduce fish mortality, and enforcement of the regulation was too difficult. I think the difficultly arose was when an angler pinched down the barb and the WCO had to determine whether the fly/lure was considered barbless. I pinch 'em down wherever I fish.

 

[Maurice]

When Heritage Trout Waters regs (barbless FFO) were merged with the DHFFO (barbs allowed) they did away with the barbless rule. I remember the then fisheries director stating in a public meeting that it was silly to mandate anglers mutilate perfectly good fishing epuipment by debarbing hooks. (or something like that.)
Suffice it to say...he didn't want anglers to have to jump through any Hoopes. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Squaretail]

Merged? What part of Heritage regulations remain, would you know?

 

[tomgamber]

They are all ffing catch release now..

 

[thedude1534]

I can see how a barbless hook reg would be hard to enforce, but I wish they existed everywhere.

I've been fishing barbless (or pinched barbed) flies since I started tying, and there is no way I'd ever go back. Sure, I loose more fish, but I also don't leave them with completely mangled lips.

I think its a shame to bring in a nice fish, only to see half its face ripped off and dangling because someone didn't pinch the barb on their #8 hook.....but thats just me.

 

[JackM]

I agree with dude on the barbless. I also agree with Hoopes, though, because as much as I know immediately upon trying to remove a hook from a fish on a fly purchased at a fly shop that it is not barbless, I am not about to risk busting the hook on a fly I just paid $2 for. I wish fly shops would sell barbless flies, but then they'd probably charge $2.35 for them. :-x

 

[jaybo41]

Well said Dude, I too would rather lose a few fish than mangle jaws. I also think fishing barbless makes one a better fisherman in that you've got to hook the fish and keep it on without a barb while landing it. It forces learning technique. I like that.

I've never had a problem pinching a barb and breaking a hook.

 

[tomgamber]

Because the south fork of the Boise is the closest big tailwater to the city, most of the fly shops in town DID sell barbless flies when I was there. Regs on that stream are C&R barbless all year...I saw a guy get busted just for carrying flies with barbs...thats why I started mashing all my barbs when tying. Didn't need to pay a fine just because I didn;t clear my dying patch after the last trip. I rarely buy flies..so its not a problem but I remember getting a little annoyed when using some of the swap flies at having to work to get them out. I'll be mashing the barbs on all my swap flies as they arrive from now on...I do not do this on saltwater flies though...

 

[pete41]

I tied 90% of the flies I used and would bend the barb on the whole box full of hooks before starting to tie.I do not recall the barbless hook being a problem so I debarb all my spinning lures.Still haven't run into any problem.
I wonder if its because someone thats always fished barbless instinctively keeps a little pressure on?
Whatever the new fly hooks from better makers have such a tiny barb its mostly just a token anyway.
What can be a problem is ticking a backcast on a rock and breaking off the hook point.If I lost a fish I would check that first.Almost always that was the reason.

 

[buggerfly]

I like using barbless hooks. It makes it a lot easier to release myself when hooked.

Dan

 

[Chaz]

I think it's been 2 years since the regulations were ah, simplified.

 

[jreichel]

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm still learning this sport and value every ones input! Looks like I'll be getting my vest and a pair of pliers out before my next outing. Hopefully this rain will bring the creeks up. This low water is tough on us rookies! :lol: It may also bring some Steelhead into the Erie tribs. ( hope so )

 

[Mike]

The scientific answer to this one was simplified by a major paper on the topic. Barbed hooks on flies resulted in an insignificant amount (1 percent) more mortality when trout were C&R'd. Thus, using a barbless hook is a value judgement, but there is no biological impact at the population level.

"Dude," I have seen the mangled jaws too, but that is not the fault of the hooks. It is the fault of the careless individual who removes the hooks. Having fished bait, plugs, spinners, and flies for years for trout, I can assure you of that.

 

[tomgamber]

With barbless hooks I almost never have to even handle the fish to release it. Slide my hand down the leader and the slightest downward pressure on the fly causes it to pop out. I have trouble believing that there is an insignificant difference between handling fish and not handling fish. I've seen people squeeze fish so they can get enough leverage to fee the barb. Half a second to slip the hook from a clean hole or 5 or more seconds to tear a barb backward thru a jagged hole...not buying the paper..please provide a link and i'll read it but I'm going to be very skeptical on this.

 

[troutbert]

On the very great majority of streams with wild trout population in PA, you can keep 5 fish per day. You can keep 5 native brookies or wild browns and put them on a stringer, cut their heads off, whatever.
And you can use bait, corn, bass plugs with gangs of treble hooks etc. And you guys are worrying about whether a fly has a barb or not?

I pinch my barbs down, BTW. It makes it easier to release a fish. And to release yourself if you run a hook into your flesh. It happens.

 

[tomgamber]

troutbert wrote:
. It makes it easier to release a fish. And to release yourself if you run a hook into your flesh.

Those are the only points I was trying to make.

And you guys are worrying about whether a fly has a barb or not?

We, you included, have discussed more stupid topics and less to do with fly fishing before. Whats your point?

 

[afishinado]

Here are 2 barbless hook studies I found:

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/es/science/inventory/TroutHooking.pdf

https://research.idfg.idaho.gov/Fisheries%20Research%20Reports/Volume%20102_Article%2004.pdf

 

[tomgamber]

I am particularly fond of this statement...

"A second drawback is that the manager or agency implementing a barbless hook
regulation without biological justification assumes there is no cost to the agency for enacting
such regulations, but this may not be the case. Schill and Kline (in press) estimate that 75% of
barbless hook violations on two Idaho waters with barbless hook requirements were made
by individuals who usually comply with the regulations, but occasionally forget to flat ten their
barbs down. If barbless hooks do not reduce hooking mortality significantly and citations are
written to largely honest anglers, the animosity generated by such enforcement may be
counterproductive to fishery agencies (Schill and Kline 1995). In Idaho, 20% of all angling
violations or 534 tickets and warnings were written for barbless hooks violations in 1994 (T.
McArthur, Idaho Fish and Game, unpublished data). The potential to generate unnecessary
hostility from anglers is real, especially if it spreads to other family members, neighbors, and
friends as a result of a ticket. Social and financial costs to management agencies could become
important over time."