Slob or Aldo Leopold

Somethings not right here. Should I delete the thread?
 
slob (slb)
n. Informal
A person regarded as slovenly, crude, or obnoxious

Aldo Leopold (January 11, 1887 – April 21, 1948) was an American ecologist, forester and environmentalist. He was influential in the development of modern environmental ethics and in the movement for wilderness preservation. Leopold is considered to be the father of wildlife management in the United States and was a life-long fisherman and hunter. Leopold died in 1948 from a heart attack, while fighting a brush fire on a neighbor's farm.


Well if you don't delete it I'm more Aldo than slobo. I also helped put out a fire on a neighbors farm once and while I am no martar I do try my best to help with stream conservation and plan to do more next year then I did this year.
 
Sorry, when I first opened the thread, there was no poll, just a message saying "poll." I thought an error occured when creating the thread.
 
a slob may litter and not poach or poach but not litter, and i polluted after a few beers a couple times lol
 
I'm pretty much the third, if picking up any trash I find along the stream counts. I don't go to organized cleanups or join an org because I'm busy and I'm broke. When I get time to fish, I keep an eye out for trash along the bank. If I find it, I'll throw it in a vest pocket and get rid of it later.

I do it because I began to care about the streams when I realized that the streams being clean would promote my fishing. At first, it was for my benefit, but now it's for the care of the streams. I'm pretty sure I'd pick up trash that I found on a stream that I may never have a chance to fish. In fact, I've done it while walking streams when on trips with no fly rod. Germany comes to mind as a place where I did this.

All in all, I can identify a handful of those categories that I currently fit in. When you add the past, I fit in most... at least I think that's how it is. I don't feel like checking the scale again.
 
JAY L I caught some nice stripers on a mullet rapal last week in cape may point its starting to pick up when the water cools a little more will geat crazy good
 
Local fishing I don't care much about if it involves rubber fish, there is no need to protect rubber fish. I participate locally in PVTU and state wide in Pennyslvania Trout Unlimited. I probably spent as much time this year on conservation isses as I have fishing. I find the fishing has really sucked this year. I haven't had a single day that I caught over 30 trout.
I do not pick up refuse mostly because it comes from thougthless people who don't give a damn about anything mush less the environment, most trash along streams comes from peoples homes anyway.
 
If you participate in conservation efforts but only TU conservation efforts one could argue you are really in it to improve the trout fishing. Especially in SEPA where only a few streams have year round cold water to support trout. Some of these are selected by TU for projects mainly aimed at making them sustaining trout streams. How many warm water streams get any conservation efforts? Not very many unless they are in state or local parks.

I admit that I participate mainly to create trout fisheries closer to home in the hopes I can someday fish them.
 
I spend a good deal of my free time on volunteerism. Whether it be conservation goal orientated TU efforts, Stocking, coaching, booster clubs, Boy Scouts, etc. The balance I spend driving my kids around to practices and fishing. I should probably do more work around the house but it isn't as much fun. All of these interests are self interests. Many or most benefit more than myself however. Some benefit the many who do not contribute.

Back to the topic, because cold water conservation improves trout fisheries, and I trout fish, does not make it any less of a conservation effort. It does involve a great deal more of my time than I spend fishing. I became involved in TU because I fish, afterall there is a fish in the logo. I knew nothing about the Org, only that a few people I knew were members. I basically joined it as a "fishing club" to learn about the new local water in my new location. Transplant from Pittshurg area to York. I quickly found that there are farther reaching results and that TU is used as a conservation serrougate for greater non-profits like the National Fish & Widlife Foundation, Chesapeake Bay Foundation, etc. In order to reach their goals they need local grass roots volunteers to carry out the small pieces to complete the whole puzzle. Once I saw how this enormous web is spun, and realized that while completing our goals that improve environmental issues on a local level also help with the greater good of downstream visions. I committed myself to do what I can , and encourage others in my area (whether members of the club or not) to accomplish our local goals. If they show an interest. Many of those that help with our Riparian buffers projects don't flyfish and some don't fish at all. We make it fun, as convenient as possible and as a result we make important contacts with landowners who either continue to allow fishing, or open their water up to fishing. It has its ups and downs but the net gain can be measured through the enthusaism of the volunteers, and through the completion of erosion reduction projects as well as the growth of riparian buffers, and the increase in the numbers and size of wild fish caught.

What happens is you (the club) build a reputation as the watershed steward. The club is approached by everything from local communities opposing hog farms to landowners who have erosion problems chewing at their land or abusers on four wheelers and 4x4 trucks tearing up their property in remote areas. All of which we try to address with our resources and acquired knowledge to solve these watershed issues.

We also raise and stock brown trout, and are the local organizational coordinators for the stocking of our watershed for the PF&BC. These are generally short term recreational goals in keeping the volunteers engaged.

Its a tall order to fill. And we fill it. Mostly by fly fishermen, spin fishermen and some local "greenies" who don't fish at all.

I guess if you think about it we are all just abunch of whores.....

I would wager if you are spending time volunteering for something you have no personal interest in you are likely to be a drag on the effort. The foundation of enthusiasm and vision is incentive. If you cannot see the goal, or have an interest in it, it is difficult to fully engage in the activity.

I enjoy what I am doing and don't measure the "fishing self interest" vs. "conservation gain". I know there is both and it is the synergistic BOMB! Some who know me can't understand how I can contribute so much time to something that doesn't pay. My glazing smile and their cocked head and spinning eyes tells me they don't get it.

I believe that anyone who enjoys the sight of flowing water, trees, shrubs, growth of living things and a warm sunshinny day should stand beside me, streamside and take in the air. Do you smell it? (with a shovel, not a rod)

I also believe that if you enjoy the benefits of a trout stream on a regular basis you are likely to be benefiting from the work of others beyond your fishing license. I would encourage those who fit this criteria to volunteer and give a little back, even if it is only help with stocking, (the short term self gratification effort). You will learn alot about the watershed. Or for those more vision orientated willing to see the benefits from conservation, I would urge you to join a TU chapter or other watershed organization even is only as a board member, or other executive staff. Or volunteer for a local watershed day. Get out there, leave the fishing rod at home and feel good about yourself, helping in a self-interested volunteer effort.

I would liken it to most other outdoor or indoor activities/past-times you may participate in. Likely you have to pay to play each time or you are using public properties. Someone is putting effort toward your enjoyment, think about that the next time you are out there.

I suppose thats a pat on the back that is self-serving. The question is does it make it any less of a pat on the back? :-D
 
The question I've always had is:

I've only got so much free time, and almost zero money. I can rarely make volunteer events and have class 4 nights a week, so TU meetings are out of the question.

I guess I could fish less, but at this rate, I only get out maybe once a month if I'm lucky. What do you guys recommend as far as any volunteer work that I could do? I try to do stuff around my community, but I do feel guilty about the lack of stream work.
 
Jay,

I wouldn't feel guilty about it....you can only contribute time that you have. If you have an interest, make a steadfast effort to be aware of the opportunities in whateshed conservation in your area by following local TU websites or by contacting the chapter that fits your time constraints (local) and wait for one that suits you. The challenge is when it comes along, you have to make the decision to go help or to go fish.

I'd recommend emailing a couple of them,(I have no idea which chapter(s) it would involve) Let them know you are not a member and can't necessarily commit to membership but would nonetheless like to lend a hand.

If you are short on time, meetings can be a bore and other than the commraderie of sitting with fellow flyfishers and the chit-chat, waiting for that nugget to satisfy your interest can be debilitating.

Get on the information pipeline , I am sure they won't shun you for wanting to help.
 
Thanks Mo. I think I'm going to try to give a saturday next month.

Anyone have a contact for Valley Forge TU?

I've tried to find a contact on their website, but all they had was an embedded info submission page that didn't work.
 
Jay,

Look on their site for their newsletter or their list of officers. Or go to PAtrout.org and check for their chapter listing and call the president. I get calls from newbies though these avenues.
 
I found a contact. Thanks for the info Mo.

I can sacrifice a few fishing days in the next month or two. I've actually gotten a few trips in lately (who the hell knows how I pulled that one off), so that'll hold me over.

If anyone in the SE would be interested, I can pass on whatever info I get.
 
I'm not a member of TU, and am not afraid to admit it. I don't plan to be in the near future, either. It's a great org, but 've got my reasons. If I lived closer to trout waters, maybe I would. I don't know. But I live in Ohio right now, and for the most part, TU chapters over here are just fishing clubs. I've done a little research. I'm not going to join any of them over here just so they can try to pick my brain on what I know about PA trout streams. (you’re welcome rrt ;-)). For one thing, it was hard to find any info on it in Ohio. I'll donate money on occasion to projects, but I'm not going to join.

On the other hand. I am a member of Ducks Unlimited even though I have never hunted ducks or geese in my entire life. I found that between the two (DU and TU), DU is a better fit for me and i can't join them all. Some day I might give duck and goose hunting a try, but then, maybe not. Nothing against it, I just never got into it. I could even hunt them on my own property. I'm on the flyway, and at times the farm is lousy with them. So, obviously I am not in it to improve my duck or geese hunting. DU is one of the greatest grass rots conservation, and environmental groups with close to a million members. They are probably the largest wetlands conservation group on the planet. They have conserved over 12 million acres in North America so far. I would imagine some of those acres have trout streams. Besides, protecting and restoring wetlands doesn't just improve duck habitat. It also improves the overall environment, including trout fishing. Wetlands are natures treatment plants, and they are also needed to recharge the aquifers that feed the trout streams.

I don't like to brag about this kind of stuff, because I think it takes away from it. I don't do volunteer work for the recognition (and I doubt many people do). However, talking about it raises awareness.
 
I'm playing a bit of devils advocate with my arguments but let me push a little further;

How many of us would participate in conservation work on cold water streams if there was no intention of supporting trout? Somehow when our favorite gamefish is involved we see a higher calling. In areas where streams are marginal our thought is to improve the cold water aspects to support trout. No thought given to the other stream life other than how it supports trout habitat. I think if we are honest we are much more selfish than we admit.
 
Tabby,

Thats kind of a loaded question in two ways. First, this is a fly fishing message board. Of course there are not going to be any/many folks here that are not interested in trout who might be doing cold water conservation work.

and two, if coldwater conservaton work were to be done to a stream, that doesn't support trout, to "heal" the waters would be to make it able to support trout.

Trout are the "canary in the coal mine" of our cold water resources. They are an effective measure of one form or mans treatment of the environment.

So what if people/anglers perform conservation orientated work for selfish reasons? Is this a bad thing?

Thats like helping at a food kitchen and saying....well if these people walk away from here with full bellies then I can't see myself doing this anymore.

On the otherhand...of you were to help feed the poor with the hopes that there would be food left over for you to take home, that could be selfish...But you still helped feed the poor.

I just think the whole "Conservation work to improve your fishing" is just an excuse for those who refuse to help.

The patting yerself and others on the back baloney....Simply put, if you do a good thing and talk about it...its bragging, If I do a good thing and you talk about it its patting me on the back.

This is a message board for petes sake... it involves talking and the sharing of information about fly fishing, the most integral part of this is the fish. If we don't give a hoot about their environment or do nothing to sustain it or improve it, we are treating it like a non-renewable resource. Even if its wild trout (renewable)

It keeps coming back to the simple question...
Do you use the resource? Yes
Do you give anything back? NO

I am not suggesting we all become Aldo Leopald or give up fishing. But if all you do is take marbles from the jar and never put any back....then try not to use the subject for your little playground to degrade or deminish the efforts of others.

Nuff said.

BTW, Tabby...this was not directed at you personally, just a general reference.

Now I am off to improve my fishing with another stream conservation effort. And to think we stocked yesterday and I won't even fish today....thats nuts!
 
tabasco_joe wrote:
I'm playing a bit of devils advocate with my arguments but let me push a little further;

How many of us would participate in conservation work on cold water streams if there was no intention of supporting trout? Somehow when our favorite gamefish is involved we see a higher calling. In areas where streams are marginal our thought is to improve the cold water aspects to support trout. No thought given to the other stream life other than how it supports trout habitat. I think if we are honest we are much more selfish than we admit.
Click to expand...

I don't really understand the question. Conservation effort on a cold water stream, and no "intention" of supporting trout?

Examples? Sorry, doesn't make sense in several aspects, but if you provided an example...

I can think of only one situation where one would do a stream project on a cold water stream without any intention of supporting trout. That would be damming it up. Therefore the answer is no. I wouldn't support that. However, if you can be more specifc, I would re-evaluate my answer. Some people might think a dam is an improvement. A few might even say it is conservation work (duck hunters?). It might even improve fertility of the stream below, and the PH. But I don't think this is what you are talking about. I know of one case where a man made marsh was added to a cold stream to help mitigate AMD. But in that case, it was to improve the trout habitat downstream. So that wouldn't fit the question, either.

The conservation effort you are talking about, I would assume is to improve the quality of this "cold water stream" whether this stream held trout or not. For the sake or agument, lets say it doesn't. If you make enough improvements, to any cold water stream, it eventually will hold trout whether we intend it or not (as long as it remains a cold water stream). Sorry, but I guess I am not smart enough to overlook that fact.;-)

How about this one.

How many of us would participate in conservation work on cold water streams if we never intended to fish it?
 
“Conservation is a state of harmony between men and land. By land is meant all of the things on, over, or in the earth. Harmony with land is like harmony with a friend; you cannot cherish his right hand and chop off his left. That is to say, you cannot love game and hate predators; you cannot conserve the waters and waste the ranges; you cannot build the forest and mine the farm. The land is one organism. Its parts, like our own parts, compete with each other and co-operate with each other. The competitions are as much a part of the inner workings as the co-operations. You can regulate them—cautiously—but not abolish them.

The outstanding scientific discovery of the twentieth century is not television, or radio, but rather the complexity of the land organism. Only those who know the most about it can appreciate how little we know about it. The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: "What good is it?" If the land mechanism as a whole is good, then every part is good, whether we understand it or not. If the biota, in the course of aeons, has built something we like but do not understand, then who but a fool would discard seemingly useless parts? To keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution of intelligent tinkering.” - Aldo Leopold



"We shall never achieve harmony with land, any more than we shall achieve absolute justice or liberty for people. In these higher aspirations the important thing is not to achieve, but to strive." – Aldo Leopold

“Just do it” – Nike


http://gargravarr.cc.utexas.edu/chrisj/leopold-quotes.html
 
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