Second Rod

ian_brown

ian_brown

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Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
308
I own an 8'6" 5wt, and am trying to decide on a second rod. So far I fish almost entirely for trout. Here's the question; I have a $100 gift certificate to Orvis, and I'm looking to get a second rod. Should I

a. Buy a shorter 3wt (a local store has a 7'6" 3wt clearwater that isn't offered on Orvis' website).

b. Buy a 7 or 8 wt, as I want to start fishing for bass and shad, and some day I could also use it for steelhead.

c. Buy a small Battenkill reel and get a light rod from another company, probably a TFO Finesse.

I'm leaning towards c because most of my fishing is on fairly small streams where distance isn't an issue.
 
Go for c. Small streams with light weight rods and dry flies is awsome. I have a 7'6" 3wt St Croix that still gets good distance and is awsome on small streams with dries. TFO makes great rods too. I have a 5wt and like it alot more than some more expensive rods.
 
If your young and agile get a 6 or 61/2 ft. 2 or 3 wt.
You can fish any trout stream in Pa. except maybe the Delaware.
You will have to learn to approach trout and really cast accurately..but you will be years ahead of most.If you are near the Paradise use that rod with size 22 fur bodied nymphs.You will learn to read currents.Most of all you will really enjoy playing the fish.
 
Most of all you will really enjoy killing the fish.
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Fixed :p


honestly though, a 2 weight, and occasionally even a 3 weight is outright trout murder in many many streams during the warm months.

I fish the winter with a 5 weight, the spring high water months with a 4 and 5 weight, May with a 3 weight, and back to the 4 and 5 weights until water temps get back into the lower 60s. The 3 weight is great fun, but I often can't put the brakes on a fish with it. I have seen them gasping quite badly with it before on streams such as the tully.

Not only that, but it's damn near impossible to cast a 3 weight or less on a remotely windy day on a medium to large sized stream.

For what it's worth, my little 3 weight is a 7.5' versitex custom. It casts like a dream on calm days in the early days of short sleeve weather and it's great for prospecting brushy brook trout streams. I'd recommend that everybody in PA have one like it.
 
get the orvis clearwater 7'6" 3 wt! i had that rod. it casts like a superfine and it will be a collectors item someday! :-D
 
I'm leaning towards the clearwater: I have a coupon for the shop that would knock the price down to $120. Also, I may be the only anlger under 60 who prefers a mid to slow action. Then again, I've wanted to try a Versitex rod for a while.
 
I'd be happy to let you cast my versitex. Perhaps we can arrange a trip like we talked about before and you can give it a shot.

It was given to me by my friend before the big C got him, and it was broken at the time. Even though I wasn't the original purchaser, they fixed it no questions asked. I later broke the butt section and they replaced the entire rod. Their service is great, and it's supporting a local builder.

However, it's not too slow...
 
jayL wrote:
Most of all you will really enjoy killing the fish.
Click to expand...

Fixed :p


honestly though, a 2 weight, and occasionally even a 3 weight is outright trout murder in many many streams during the warm months.

I fish the winter with a 5 weight, the spring high water months with a 4 and 5 weight, May with a 3 weight, and back to the 4 and 5 weights until water temps get back into the lower 60s. The 3 weight is great fun, but I often can't put the brakes on a fish with it. I have seen them gasping quite badly with it before on streams such as the tully.

Not only that, but it's damn near impossible to cast a 3 weight or less on a remotely windy day on a medium to large sized stream.

For what it's worth, my little 3 weight is a 7.5' versitex custom. It casts like a dream on calm days in the early days of short sleeve weather and it's great for prospecting brushy brook trout streams. I'd recommend that everybody in PA have one like it.
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Why can't you stop the fish? Is 5x tippet weaker on a 3wt than on a 5wt?

I didn't worry about "murdering" fish in warm weather because I didn't fish warm water. Switch to well shaded streams, limestoners or bottom release streams. Above all carry a stream thermometer and check the temps. As the water gets up in the high 60's, back off and let the trout rest.
 
Well it was mostly in jest, but I'll humor you.

Would you argue that a rod with significantly lesser backbone is as effective at putting the brakes on a running trout?

If you're arguing that you can fight a fish as effectively on a 2 or 3 weight as you can on a 5 weight, I'd like to know your methods because they are superior to mine.

Sure, you can seek out more heavily shaded streams and limestoners, but pete's comment was that it can be used on most any water in the state, paying homage to its versatility. Given my above points, I was forced to disagree.

I'd actually like to see a study done on this for any scientists out there. Mortality rates for trout at various water temperatures on various tackle sizes. I'm of the opinion that in borderline temperature situations, there will be a higher mortality rate on 3 weights vs 5 weights, and even higher on an incredibly light 2 weight.
 
Your talking 12 inch trout with maybe a couple of 14 or 15 inchers a year.A 61/2 or 7 foot graphite rod with a two or three pound tippet should enable any reasonably skilled angler to land them in 30 or 40 seconds-long before stress in trout comfortable water.To carry the longer,heavier rods on Pa. streams leads to the misconception that they are necessary but its the tippet size not the rod wt. and length that determines the pressure that can be applied.The shorter,lighter rods call for more skill on the part of the angler as far as approach,casting and reading the water.Try one and see what you have been missing.
I will cheerfully admit when we used Maxima 8x that tested 3/8 of a pound at the knot we over stressed the big ones at the paradise.Did not land many though.Never saw any belly up.Too bad the Ed Shenk/Ed Koch 5 footers didn't catch on.That was fun fishing.
 
> but its the tippet size not the rod wt. and length that determines the pressure that can be applied.The shorter,lighter rods call for more skill on the part of the angler as far as approach,casting and reading the water.Try one and see what you have been missing.>>

Well, I'll quibble cordially and mildly...:)

I think it it certainly true that were all the fish on the end of our lines acting in a manner where they only put a direct weight stress on a tippet without sudden fluctations in that stress, what you say would almost always be so.

But they don't..

They bolt and zip back and forth and head for log jams and whatnot, all of which can often exponentially increase stress on a tippet. I think this is where the available backbone of a somewhat heavier rod comes in. It is simply easier to turn a fish with such a rod. Since landing the fish is supposed to be the object, it would seem to me that the more rapidly you can turn him, the sooner the thing is done and the fish can be released. In in this sense, IMO at least, a little heavier rod really probably is better when trying to avoid stressing fish in higher water temps.

Whether the shorter. lighter rods require more "skill" is to me a almost wholly subjective question. It is, IMO, at least probably equally true to say that in some stream situations, they are a less efficient and common sensical tool than a heavier rod.

But that's subjective too.

In any event, nice to see you here and welcome...!
 
I readily admit that it could be a skill issue for me. I'm only 22. I just have the sneaking suspicion that I may have belly uped a few 16 inchers at the tully when I was younger with that small rod. I still feel that there's not enough backbone to put the brakes on a sizable fish with it, but maybe that's just a perception issue and I play them lighter with it.

Sorry if I came across like a snob or anything, I promise I'm not. I'm just a guy in a real foul mood over some recent stuff going on and I don't want to lose any of my trout friends for a little bit more fun, haha.
 
Before you buy any rod, I would recommend casting it first. You could waste the gift certificate on a rod that doesn't feel right in your hands and wish you had picked up the reel.

If you have a good reliable fly shop that is close to you, I would go there and cast some rods. Pick their brains about what kinds of streams you fish and what rods they would recommend length and weight wise. The Battenkill reels are solid reels.
 
I have found that the lighter rod acts as a cushion for the tippet, and I can actually apply more pressure with a lighter rod, so long as I don't break it. I used to baby them on my 2/3 weight, but after seeing it looking like an ugly stick a few times I've gained a bit more faith in my gear. I've caught trout up to 27" on it, and to the best of my knowledge they are still out swimming around, as I've seen many of them for weeks after being released. This was with an 8 dollar blank. I'd hope them fancy Orvis's and stuff can hold up just as well or better. I could be wrong, but those are my pennies.

PS, Jay, I feel like a d!#k for bailing the other day. The local news made it sound like a house was gonna fall on a witch or something, then we got 30 minutes of light drizzle. I was bummed. We'll have to try again when I get back from Fla.

Boyer
 
Interesting points all. I agree with the lighter rods protecting the tippet better, but I still don't feel comfortable with that much bend in the little thing. I'll probably always feel that way, but its just a personal preference.


Boyer,

It freaking POURED.

It was a torrent man. I got there, the creek looked fine. I was laughing to myself thinkin "i'm gonna catch the hell out of them then break his balls about it". I was hungry so I grabbed a bite... When I left IHOP, BOOM. It was ridiculous.

You didn't miss much my friend...... Now saturday, that was a good day to be out there.
 
i use the orvis superfine trout bum and it holds up great. some of the pics of the fish i caught at lititz run were on 5x and some on 6x. all those fish came in fairly quickly and none went belly up. the rod can basically bend in half without damage to the equipment. slow action rods do protect the tippet better, but the fishes first run is almost unstoppable. at least on a 20 inch trout. when that fish first feels the hook and takes off you have to let him go to some degree. especially when fishing a streamer where the stikes are violent. but there is no reqason to belive that catching a 20 inch+ trout on a full flex could be death to the fish. heck some of those trouts i caught had run me into sticks, rocks and weeds. a few times it snapped me, most times i was successful and landing the fish. if you look at the pics you will see clumps of weeds on the ground i brought in with the fish. although, my rod is a 4wt and not a 3wt. in the next year iam going to buy the superfine trout bum 3wt of brookie streams.
bottomline: use what u feel comfortable using. slow action rods do ask for more skill in casting, approach and reading the water. but if you are looking for a wild trout rod for little streams with small trout, then a slow action light wt rod is perfect!
 
RLeep,

Lee Wulff landed an Atlantic salmon on the top half of his rod. So landing a 2 pound trout on a lightweight rod should be much easier.

IMHO the thing that makes landing any trout hard is the current. So I just try to keep the fish upstream of me. This neutralizes the current, actually it makes it a disadvantage to the trout. And the size becomes less of an issue also.

I don't use really light lines on big water, because I think you want to be able to use heavier flies or weighted nymphs. Casting these on a 3wt is a real chore.

A much bigger issue than the rod is the reluctance of some fishermen to carry a net.
 
I think a 7 to 7 1/2 ft 3 to 4 wt rod would be ideal. I think 2wts are somewhat of a gimmick.....you can't cast flies of any size.... especially at short distances......others will disagree but you're basically talking a modified chuck and duck with larger flies.....fun but not practical IMHO. I recently got rid of all my 2wts.

I fish with a 7' 4wt orvis trout bum and a 7' 3 wt diamoglass all the time and am able to quickly play any trout up to about 18". Still plently of fun on the small ones and can't remember last time I broke a tippet.

I'd look seriously at the 7' 4wt orvis superfine or TLS if I had that gift certificate.

Forget spending any serious money on a reel.....just a line holder 99% of the time at fish you should be targeting with a 2-4 wt.
 
I have a 7'6" 4 wt Loomis GL 2.....I love it. It is a great rod for every stream I have fished. From the Lil J to small native streams I've never had a problem.

I also have a TFO 8'6" 4wt that I use as my back-up rod...It's not nearly as nice as the Loomis as far as casting...seems awfully slow.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300126817917
 
Forget spending any serious money on a reel.....just a line holder 99% of the time at fish you should be targeting with a 2-4 wt.
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Every time I hear the "line holder" comment it makes me shudder a bit. :-o So you're saying that the 1% of the fish for which you need a good drag is irrelevent? I would say I fish for that 1%, although I enjoy the other 99% immeasureably. Nothing sucks more than hooking into a fish that's bigger than you were looking for and not being prepared. That being said, you can get an Orvis BBSII for 90 bucks, and I haven't found a decent reel for much less than that anyhow. :p

Boyer
 
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