Is it OK to lie?

[Wmass]

To start I don't live in PA anymore and today I was fishing my home stream today when a carload of bait fisherman pulled up as I was getting changed. They started asking me if this section of the stream was fly fishing only and whether it was catch-and-release only. I was honest with them and said it was open access and you could keep fish, but I wanted to lie to them so bad. I think next time I am going to.

Also, I am thinking of making up some signs that say "Practice Catch and Release" and posting them at all the entrances to the stream, just as a suggestion of course.

 

[Maurice]

I was at the warm waters in York..onthe susky last week and these "river rats" upstream of me were hooting and hollering and swimming and swearing and yes catching a few fish. Boy did that ever get them hooting and hollering and swearing. F-bombs galore. It was a real annoyance. Anyway, at this point the hailstorm came through and everyone left the river, it passed and we were back out there again. And so wer ethe river rats. A couple were younger kids (early teens) and theo others were I guess their older brothers. Wen suddenly I here this young kid yell out, hey mister, I turned and he said, can we keep the bass this time of year? I though for a moment and said....I don;t think you can keep them til after June 15. When of course the reg is (2) 18" bas per person/day.

He thanked me and life went on.

I lied but I think I did the right thing.

 

[giantsjim]

I know how you feel and part of me agrees with you to lie. I hate to see stringers, they just rub me raw (along with the trash the bait boys leave behind). But those guys have a right to their part of the water too. Please do not compromise your principles...you may regret it the next time you fish.

 

[Fishidiot]

No.

The catch and release signs would be fine but will likely lead even more fishermen to ask you the same question. I guess if you can't bear to tell someone it's legal to keep fish you could just shrug and say yuh don't know. I don't think you should tell someone that what they're doing is illegal when you know it isn't.

 

[Maurice]

giantsjim wrote:
I know how you feel and part of me agrees with you to lie. I hate to see stringers, they just rub me raw (along with the trash the bait boys leave behind). But those guys have a right to their part of the water too. Please do not compromise your principles...you may regret it the next time you fish.

Jim, is that like a Karma thing?

Heres the deal. I know the regs because I am avid about this stuff. I mingle with the harvesting crowd and appreciate their right to do so. I also don't do so. It is against my better judgement AND future productivity in fishing to promote harvest or be the answer guy. I will always err on the side of caution to my own benefit. I will also point out when someone is breaking the law or not abiding by the regs for their own good. I will even give my opinion on the values of catch and release and benefits of naturally reproducing populations. Again, to my benefit.

When you ask a question and get an answer you always have to consider the source....this is a life lesson everyone must learn. He may learn the regulation and think, that guy was wrong...or he may think he knows more than me...or he may think, I lied, but in the end, there are likely two 18" bass swimming in the river to provide for the future smallmouth fishery that has gone down the judda. The PF&BC won't provide the signs to inform the anglers, nor will they provide the regulations to protect the remaining bass inthe river. They've turned their backs on the Susky with the hopes it will return. And they call it management.

Sometimes doing nothing is a good thing....I guess.

 

[rrt]

I guess I'm old and different from you young guys. You bet it's okay to lie. I'd have told them it was illegal to keep the fish. I think it's all right to lie about lots of stuff, like where you fish, how many you catch, etc. With all the k/t people out there selling out places and w/ the evil empire lurking out there looking for more places to legally steal, I encourage you all to lie through your teeth. You might just save some fishing spots and fish by lying. (I guess I won't go into an anti-k/t diatribe right now. You all know how I feel about that subject anyhow.)

 

[Fishidiot]

rrt,
We'll have to agree to disagree my friend. I've been FFing for 30 years and share much of your disdain for K&T but one can find a way to be evasive in situations like this. Outright lying about regulations is simply wrong in my view. When you make it clear that the truth is such a unimportant issue with you - and you're so easily willing to bend it - don't be surprised when your credibility on issues where the truth "matters" isn't as strong as you think it should be.

Also - I'm a bit weary of your longstanding us of the term "evil empire" to describe SRC etc. While you can choose to use whatever term you like - I think disgraceful, greedy, selfish, illegal (with regards to the LJ), and pernicious are accurate.
"Evil" is just too much. I've known evil people. When we use terms like this lightly we degrade the true meaning of the term. Perhaps your use of the term is purely tongue in cheek but I don't get that impression.

 

[flybop]

Here's a related story. A couple summers ago a friend and I were rigging up to fish a nameless mountain stream near my house. As we were getting ready a car pulled up with Michigan tags and 2 college aged kids got out and asked if it was legal to fish this stream. I quickly mentioned our access laws and said that we were going in on private property with permission, a bit of a white lie there, and that the national forest starts a few miles up the road. As I strapped my bear spray on I asked if they had any.

Well, neither one knew what bear spray was, so I told them why we carry it on this stream. One was not really buying it, but the other asked what kind of animals are in that area. So, I told them that I had seen bear (only black, but I let them think the worse), wolves and mountain lions. That was enough to convince the one kid that he did not want to fish that stream.

While what I said to them was basically true, I had only seen cat tracks there, not an actual lion, I just let their imagination go to work. In all honesty though, I have not fished that stream without bear spray for a few years and they should not have gone in without any.

 

[Wmass]

Just curious but what is/are the k&t crowd?

 

[Padraic]

I think I would have told them, "You know, I'm a little hazy on the creel regs. I fly fish with barbless hooks and always release. So I figure I don't need to worry about it as long as I am not trespassing."

You aren't responsible for other people's ignorance or lack of interest. If they really cared to know what the regs are, they would know them. On the other hand, when they do figure them out, you aren't caught in a lie. You can still plausibly assert that the regs for creeling fish don't interest you.

I don't have a problem with guys taking fish. I just don't see why I should have to help them. (I also don't think believe for a second that there aren't a 100 other guys who are taking the fish! And what ever I say or do makes as much difference as spitting in the ocean)

 

[osprey]

I did not have sex with that woman.

 

[JackM]

You could always say; "I think it is legal, but would prefer you didn't. The stream is recovering (or whatever) and could really use our help by having all the fish released."

If you can't think of a truthful reason to convince them to follow your self-imposed regulations, then one has to wonder why you would even think to lie in the first place.

 

[troutbert]

If you think the regulations do not protect the wild fish population or create a good recreational fishery for stocked fish, you might send a letter to the PFBC about it.

 

[pete41]

Oh,the horror to think that our society has degenerated to the point that even fishermen would lie.
Whats the sense of stream and catch reports if we can't believe them anyway?
Or claiming to fish for 6inchers for the solitude instead of saying you really needed to catch something?
Come on guys lets not waver in our steadfast adherence to veracity is our ONLY policy re-angling pursuits.

 

[FiveWeight]

I know how you feel and part of me agrees with you to lie. I hate to see stringers, they just rub me raw (along with the trash the bait boys leave behind). But those guys have a right to their part of the water too. Please do not compromise your principles...you may regret it the next time you fish.



Yep, no need to lie about the way it is. The trash left behind by some of the people jerks my chain but I guess I'm kind of torn about stringers of fish. I hear a lot of folks complaining about taking fish. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume your talking about creeks/streams that will hold trout on a year round basics.?. I fish a lot of streams that I would never dream of keeping a stringer of fish out of. But here again, camping on the banks of big Pine up in the canyon, I'm having trout for supper that night. I fish lesser water here in the SE part of the state. Yep. Stocked water. Hey it's close to home and I'm on the water.... For the longest time I would never keep a fish out of these waters but these waters don't hold trout to any extent.... By late July, at best, the water is too warm and too low, there are no trout. Ok, ok yes there are some, some hold overs but for the most part these waters are unfishable for trout. I think it's great to see a father and son with a stringer of fish on this type of water. The fish won't survive another month or so anyway. I hardly ever keep fish. That being said. This Saturday I will fish Stone Creek in Jackson Corner with a few friends and we keep the fish and by noon we gotum wrapped in foil with potato, onion and butter on an open fire. Oh, don't forget the beer. But isn't that a little bit of a PA Tradition? But here again. I'd never keep one off of the LJ, Trout Run, Muddy Creek, the Tully, Spruce, Cedar Run, Slate and the like. Maybe I'm seeing this a wrong but on certain waters you may as well keep um. There gonna die in the low warm water anyway.

 

[FiveWeight]

Yep keep lying through your teeth. This is whats wrong with our country. Stop the lying stop the cheating. You lie to them now. What happens when they learn the truth? They stop trusting. This is what has happened in our schools for ages. They wash the brain then when the child grows and learns things for his/her self they become very cynical on trusting anything either that of they just figure, Oh, it must be ok to lie, everybody else does it..... Yep. " I did not have sexual relations with..... Fill in the blanks. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Simple way to live. Just my opinion. Live the way you want to. Then people wonder why I trust very, very few people.

 

[flybop]

FiveWeight, I think that this topic and thread has a bit of a sarcastic sense of humor t it. I know that my post did. However, there really are grizzly bears, wolves and mountain lions in the drainage I was talking about. Some of the posters did mention that it is the fisherman's responsibility to know what the regs are where they fish, which I agree with.

 

[wildtrout2]

Here's the bottom line. Treat people the way you would want to be treated. You go and lie to people, then expect to be lied to. It's that simple. There are ways around outright lyng to people. It's like the "Good Book" says, do unto others... ;-)

 

[pete41]

all's fair in love,war and concealing hotspots.
Don't ask-don't tell.

 

[wildtrout2]

pete41 wrote:
all's fair in love,war and concealing hotspots.
Don't ask-don't tell.

Concealing hotspots (which I totally agree with) is one thing and outright lying about them is another. If you don't want to have to lie about something, simply play like you have no knowledge of it. Then it's just a "white lie". :-D