Hardware With Treble Hooks - A Rant

[McSneek]

So I'm nymphing my way through the upper stretch of the catch and release section on Penns yesterday and my indicator goes under and it feels like I'm hooked up. After a bit I look up and can see that I have actually snagged a long piece of mono. As I'm pulling against it in an effort to reach my flies and leader it still feels like a fish on the end and now the mono looks like it is moving up and down in the stream. I grab the mono, and start to wind it in by hand. Sure enough, there is a fish on the end of it. I can feel him and see him now. Ultimately I "land" about a 10" brown attached to a 2" Rapala in baby brown trout colors. This lure has two treble hooks - the front one is firmly embedded inside the fish's mouth and the rear one is up under the gill plate, possibly in the gill itself. I get the lure out of the fish with my hemos and he swims off under his own power. The lure looks brand new so I'm thinking this hadn't been going on for too long.

That lure is certainly legal in the C&R section of Penns and anywhere else but why, why, why do you need to have that many hook points where catch and release is the law? Even if the line hadn't broke and the fish had been landed by the original fisherperson I'm thinking all those treble hooks had to injure the fish, especially the one that was inside the gill plate. I am not against spin fishing but why not at least take the front treble off or replace them with single hooks if you're practicing C&R? Why doesn't PA limit the number of hook points in C&R regulated water? Having all those hooks on that lure is like hunting rabbits with an elephant gun IMO.

 

[BeastBrown]

They should limit trebles in C&R waters, and maybe more. The removal of the front treble on six-hooked lures is a good idea for anyone to do. It definitely cuts down on mangled fish. I have experience fishing with spinners for trout like a lot of people in PA do, and treble hooks definitely do more damage than even two hooks if you trim your own trebles.

I have seen this argument amongst die hard spinner fisherman who claim that a treble is no more likely to screw up a trout than two or one hook, and in my personal experience, that is total BS. The guys who argue this point are the ones who do photo diaries after almost every trip of the 50+ fish they catch and touch with treble hooked spinners.

 

[Lonewolve]

McSneek,
If memory serves me right there use to be single hook only on all lures in catch and release waters, maybe its trophy trout..not sure but remember years ago the signs that were posted even had that on them.
Since i have been catch an release for over thirty years now and flyfishing for 21 years i havent paid much attention to number of hooks since except for shad where i tie double hook flies all my other flies are single hooked.
Hopefully that brown is ok and you dint get pricked by the trebles.

 

[afishinado]

FYI, from Doc Fritchey TU on a Maryland study of trout mortality using artificial lures equipped with treble hooks:

"The artificial lures and flies used in this study were equipped with hooks small enough to be ingested deeply even by trout of less than 200 mm. Warner (1978) noted that smaller treble hooks (size 10) were more easily ingested than single hook flies and caused significantly higher mortality. We found that treble hook equipped lures were difficult to disengage from captured trout, particularly when hooked within the mouth or in the gills. This increased the time required to unhook the trout and thus the actual handling of the fish. Nuhfer and Alexander (1989) reported that the treble hook equipped Mepps spinners used in their hooking mortality study were more difficult to unhook from anatomical sites within the mouths of wild brook trout than were single hooks. We found that single hook artificial flies were generally less difficult to unhook than treble hooks and required less handling of the trout.

The spinner type artificial lures used in this study were equipped with small treble hooks that are characteristic of the sizes used by anglers on the Savage River Tailwater. An on stream angler survey conducted by Fisheries Service personnel from March through June 1994, revealed that the average hook gape of treble hook equipped lures in use was 4.7 mm (range: 4 to 8 mm, N= 23). The size 12 and 14 treble hooks on artificial lures used in this study had hook gapes of 4 and 5 mm respectively. All but two of anglers interviewed were using a spinner type lure similar to those used in the study.

Flyfisherman interviewed during the survey were using single hooked flies with an average gape of 5.1 mm (range: 3 to 8 mm, N= 36), comparable to the 3 to 7 mm hook gapes found on the single hook flies used in this study. Fisherman were also asked if they carried specific tools for hook removal. Thirty five of 36 fisherman (97%) using artificial flies carried some form of forceps for hook removal while 11 of 23 fisherman (48%) using artificial lures carried forceps or pliers.

It is clear that trout caught on treble hook equipped artificial lures in this study sustained more physical trauma than those captured on single hook flies, as evidenced by the higher incidence of bleeding fish. Over half (57.4%) of trout captured on spinners were hooked in a location other than the jaw and 27.8% were bleeding when unhooked. Only 13.6% of trout captured with flies were hooked in a location other than the jaw and only 2.5% of those were bleeding when unhooked.

Mongillo (1984) concluded that salmonids hooked in a non-jaw location (gills, esophagus, tongue, or eye) were four times more likely to die regardless of hook type. Although trout captured in our study were not observed for more than about 4 to 6 hours, the relatively greater physical damage and bleeding observed among trout captured with artificial lures versus flies supports the premise that a larger proportion of trout caught on lures would experience delayed mortality."


Here is a PAFF thread from way back discussing this issue

 

[pete41]

The reason treble hooked lures are still with us is the reason I found it was a mistake to cut off some of the barbs when I retired to fl..
two reasons actually.
1..the lures were designed to work best with a certain weight.Need to be very careful about altering that.
2.Trebles hold better than than singles or doubles as you don't get a see saw effect which enlarges the hole and allows the points just to fall out with a lure.
so they are still around because they work better,now if that's detrimental to the sport is something else.

 

[PSUFishMenace]

One day I was throwing a small rapala on Valley. I got sick of the back hook constantly snagging the gill plate/side of head/belly and noticed all of the fish were hitting the front of the lure anyway. I removed the back hook entirely and didn't miss a single fish the rest of the day. When trout are chasing aggressively, the back hook is totally unnecessary.

 

[pete41]

thats true-I have done that but if you are a lure guy-watch the action as bought then put the correct hook on to duplicate it.
My catch drop to almost zilch until i figured that out.lol

 

[Swattie87]

FWIW, I do think trebles do more damage than single hooks. The big difference I note is when a hook is taken deeply...a single barbless hook still comes out pretty easily and I suspect that these fish are probably perfectly fine upon release. Trebles (even barbless) taken deeply are a total disaster to get out without injuring the fish.

That said, I still fish spinners with trebles on occasion. Some spinners run fine with a single hook in place of the treble, but on others the single hook doesn't provide enough drag in the water to keep the blade spinning. I often fish Joe's Flies and just remove the trailing treble...the fly provides a lot of drag and removing the treble doesn't really affect the efficiency of the blade. I think a big thing with using trebles on spinners is to use a fairly big hook...tougher for the fish to take deeper, and more likely they'll just get one of the points when they hit. Switching to a bigger treble will actually help some spinners run by creating more drag too.

 

[Kabutt]

If someone is practicing c&r, then they shouldn't be allowed to fish with treble hooks or even barbed single hooks period. If you're releasing them, who cares if you lose a couple here and there? I believe trebles and barbs (well, barbs much less so but still...) go against the whole ethic of c&r.

 

[pete41]

and there are plenty that believe you shouldn't be torturing living creatures just for the fun of it.
Open that door very slowly lest we say "tally ho" to our sport as did the English Fox hunters.

 

[ryguyfi]

Where's Frank when you need him?

 

[SBecker]

Beat me to it, Ryan. Don't think he is needed though. Lol

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Forgot about that guy!

Pcray beat him though w/ that 100 trout day he had a while back.

 

[SBecker]

Pcray Vs. Frank Nale the epic battle between good vs. evil, science vs bullshit, 50,000 word thesis vs 100 word paragraphs. Who will win!?

 

[Kabutt]

C'mon do tell... Who's Frank?

 

[pete41]

he claims he had 1,000 100 plus days catching 6" fish on spinning lures.
One of the truly greats in angling histrionics.
We bowed to him,backwards.

 

[YoughRiverGuide]

Being a take all comers sort of guide service (with the exception of bait fishermen) we guide spin fisherman pretty frequently. All of our guides carry boxes of spinners and plugs that have single hooks only on them.

The bottom line is they hook just as many fish, you actually lose fewer fish, and of course you don't make a mess of the fish with the singles.

That bit about plugs not swimming properly if the hooks are replaced with singles is bogus. I replace the hooks with a heavier gauge single and they work just fine.

 

[Love2fish]

I have built wooden lures for stripers and blue fish and almost always put a single hook on the tail even on lures I buy. But you should go atleast 2 sizes bigger to get the correct weight so it does not affect the action. The old theory that a single hook on a lure will cause more lost fish, I have never noticed that. JMO

 

[pete41]

don't think anyone claimed they wouldn't swim properly IF you made sure they had the correct weight to get the proper action.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

I don't see any problem with guys using small treble hooks on rapalas or spinners size 8,10 now 6 thats to big. why is someone breaking off on a 10 inch brown trout?. Actually a guy that ties for me that also does for a well known shop puts small trebles on a dace pattern streamer use just takes the barbs off