Few small trout

[wildtrout2]

I fish a fairly small stream that has "very few" small (

 

[pcray1231]

Has it been this way for long, or are you just noticing?

Think through year classes. Trout are all born around the same time each year. So....

1. Like any other fish, they have strong and weak year classes. Maybe there's a missing year class due to some event or condition? This is pretty common.

2. Maybe the growth rate is very good so that last year's fish are already 10", and you just aren't catching the young of the year, which are likely very small indeed and may have a completely different diet. Do you always fish this stream at the same time of year? Have you seen what they look like in, say, winter?

If it's a long term thing and happens in all seasons, well, they gotta be coming from somewhere! Maybe up in a trib or something, then at a certain age they come down to the bigger stream?

 

[wildtrout2]

This stream has actually been this way since I started fishing it 4 years ago. I have yet to see/fish a stream like it, as it ALWAYS gives up good numbers as well. There are only a couple of VERY small tribs to this stream, so I don't think they really come into play here.

 

[WildTigerTrout]

I think WE should go there so I can see for myself. :lol:

 

[pcray1231]

Do you fish it all year long, or have your outings generally been at the same time of year?

If you've fished it for 4 years, but always in June-July time frame, then both the growth rate/year class thing and migration are still viable explanations. All the 4 years does is rule out it being the result of a single poor year class.

 

[Lonewolve]

Maybe there is heavy predation going on? is there good invertebrate populations..caddis,mayfly,stones? midge ect?

 

[wildtrout2]

WildTigerTrout wrote:
I think WE should go there so I can see for myself. :lol:

Very good WTT! lmao

Yes, I only fish it May, June, and sometimes July. I think the smallest trout I've ever caught was around 8". I don't even see/spook small trout. I do see some small minnows on occasion though.

 

[Chaz]

I know a couple of brookie streams that are that way, very few small fish, a lot of brookies over 9 inches and up to 18 inches. Big fish usually come from streams that are not fished much, and produce lots of YOY, but the YOY are food for the big guys. There are usually a lot of chubbs and suckers in these streams too, though one I know has no suckers.
Anyway, the fish grow fast because there are a lot of big food items, like, crayfish, sculpins, suckers, chubbs, and small trout. You can tell by color of the fish being more silvery than most streams, but they aren't always.
Surveys usually bare this out, the fish are big because of big food items and lack of anglers.
One day in June on one of these stream a friend of mine and I caught over 150 brookies ranging from 9 to 15 inches, with one fish being a woping 17 inches.

 

[PatrickC]

WildTigerTrout wrote:
I think WE should go there so I can see for myself. :lol:

Ditto!

 

[wildtrout2]

Chaz, you might be on to something. I was wondering, especially being browns, if their not just eating all the smaller trout? Also, as you hinted, this stream see's very little pressure, and only by an occasional local. Like I said, I've yet to see anything like it.

 

[Swattie87]

I'm not sure the absence of trout less than 10 inches can be attributed to that kind of growth rate for YOY in just one year...less than a year actually given the time frame that wildtrout fishes it. Under "ideal" hatchery conditions it takes nearly a year to grow a fish that size. I'm certain I don't know this stream, or if I do, I haven't noticed the same phenomenon wildtrout has. Just judging from wildtrout's usual posts and pics though, I suspect this stream is a freestoner? If that's the case, I don't think there's a freestoner anywhere that can grow a Brown Trout to 10 inches in less than a year...it's very possible not even a limestoner could do that.

My guess is it's a combination of habitat and heavy predation by the established larger fish. Meaning the stream has the habitat to hold and protect larger fish. These larger fish prey heavily on the YOY, so there are relatively fewer fish that survive to be big enough to be caught by the angler, but still small enough to be prey for the resident larger fish...think the usual "dinks" in a stream...4-6 inches. Those are the ones that are missing here correct? Once a fish gets to 7-8 inches it's probably big enough to avoid being eaten by all but the largest fish in the stream. You don't usually catch YOY in most instances until the late Summer/early Fall of their first year...so it's difficult to say whether they're there or not without shocking the stream...obviously they are there on this stream, but it's tough to see them usually, especially when there are Chubs or Fallfish, or other species YOY mixed in there too.

My bet is there are some 4-6 inch fish in there, but they're occupying the more marginal lies and habitat that we as anglers don't focus on as much.

Just my guess. Cool thread.

 

[troutbert]

Are you just fishing the better habitat spots, i.e. the best pools? Those tend to be dominated by the larger fish. Small fish that venture in there get eaten.

If you fish some of the smaller pockets and runs, i.e. the "small trout habitat", you might find some small trout.

 

[wildtrout2]

Swattie, what you say here makes a lot of sense. It is a freestone stream.

 

[wildtrout2]

No tb, these browns are even in the smaller pocket water! This is another thing that flips me out about this stream, their not just in the bigger pools/runs.

 

[lv2nymph]

I'd like to go with Chaz on the stream he fishes. :-D

 

[salmonoid]

I can't find the link now but I read a report about a study done on brown trout growth in Wisconsin (I think in the Driftless area). They saw growth rates of between three to five inches per year in extremely fertile water. I'd wager a guess that there are no brown trout in freestone streams that grow anywhere near 10 inches a year. I bet they struggle to get a quarter of that in most freestoners in PA..

If there are bigger fish there, I'd wager the small ones are contributing to their growth

Swattie87 wrote:
I'm not sure the absence of trout less than 10 inches can be attributed to that kind of growth rate for YOY in just one year...less than a year actually given the time frame that wildtrout fishes it. Under "ideal" hatchery conditions it takes nearly a year to grow a fish that size. I'm certain I don't know this stream, or if I do, I haven't noticed the same phenomenon wildtrout has. Just judging from wildtrout's usual posts and pics though, I suspect this stream is a freestoner? If that's the case, I don't think there's a freestoner anywhere that can grow a Brown Trout to 10 inches in less than a year...it's very possible not even a limestoner could do that.

My guess is it's a combination of habitat and heavy predation by the established larger fish. Meaning the stream has the habitat to hold and protect larger fish. These larger fish prey heavily on the YOY, so there are relatively fewer fish that survive to be big enough to be caught by the angler, but still small enough to be prey for the resident larger fish...think the usual "dinks" in a stream...4-6 inches. Those are the ones that are missing here correct? Once a fish gets to 7-8 inches it's probably big enough to avoid being eaten by all but the largest fish in the stream. You don't usually catch YOY in most instances until the late Summer/early Fall of their first year...so it's difficult to say whether they're there or not without shocking the stream...obviously they are there on this stream, but it's tough to see them usually, especially when there are Chubs or Fallfish, or other species YOY mixed in there too.

My bet is there are some 4-6 inch fish in there, but they're occupying the more marginal lies and habitat that we as anglers don't focus on as much.

Just my guess. Cool thread.

 

[Chooch]

Easy solution to your question. Get a kick seine and kick a short section and see what you get. Big trout come from small trout. So, I am sure they are somewhere. It is quite possible the small feeders you referenced are holding the small trout kind of like a nursery and then when they get to a big enough size they go down with the bigger fish.