Anyone else noticing an abundance of pike in streams this year?

gemiller

gemiller

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
154
I've been fishing for some summer trout the past few weekends in a few streams that before this year I have never even caught a pike in. This year, however, I am well into the 20+ quantity of caught pike in the 12"-20" range in small streams in Schuylkill county specifically. Is this a known issue, or am I the only one experiencing this? They are taking just about any streamer on earth.
 
You are catching pickerel most likely, smaller couisin to the pike.
 
Perhaps, after looking at pictures of both I actually think there's some of each, because I definitely recall one of them really standing out because it had horizontal markings and from what I just looked up the pike has horizontal and pickerel have vertical/almost brook trout like markings(which was definitely the majority of what I caught). I never caught a pickerel before this, and only knew the difference between pike and muskie.

Either way, I've never caught them in these streams before. It just seems strange that I can catch 4+ in under 2 hours on areas I've never seen them before!
 
Is this a known issue, or am I the only one experiencing this? They are taking just about any streamer on earth.

They are talking any streamer on earth, you have caught 20 12-20" fish and it is an issue?
 
While this is odd, it's certainly possible - although I have never seen this in 30+ of trout fishing in PA. Are you sure they're pike? Juvenile pike have vertical bars and look very similar to fingerling muskies and small pickeral. These escocids are very similar at the fingerling size but pike and chain pickeral develop different markings as they grow into adults. Is the river stocked with muskies? Muskies are usually stocked as fingerlings in the fall and they'd be in the 12+ inch range by the following spring/summer.
Be cool if you could get some pics.
 
I'll take a camera with me, hoping to get out an evening this week and try to catch some more. There was a really large one sunning next to a downed tree, I'd estimate him at 24" or so but I scared him and that was the last I seen him, but based on the stream I'd say he isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I don't think it's stocked with muskie, I'm noticing this in two small streams that I fish, although both relatively close in proximity. Is there a muskie stocking chart somewhere to look at? But I've caught and seen a fair share of tiger muskie, and that's definitely not what is in these streams.

jdaddy: it's not an issue as far as fishing, but I don't know if it's a concern to trout habitat, because i always thought these types of fish tend to only stay in warmer waters that trout don't like, and in my head I was making the correlation that these fish = bad trout habitat.
 
Could be you are catching red fin pickerel. the have different markings than a chain pickerel.
Redfin Pickerel Esox americanus americanus
Species overview: The redfin pickerel is the eastern half of the Esox americanus subspecies twins. The other is northwest Pennsylvania’s grass pickerel (Esox americanus vermiculatus). The redfin’s native range is along the Atlantic Coast from Massachusetts to Florida. In the Gulf Coast and southeast states, it mixes and interbreeds with the grass pickerel. The redfin is a common small pickerel in the Delaware River watershed in Pennsylvania. It is found rarely in the Susquehanna River watershed. In Pennsylvania, there is no natural overlap in the geographic distribution of these subspecies.

Identification: The redfin, along with the grass pickerel, is the smallest member of the pike family, growing to 12 inches at most. Its range restriction in this state, east of the Allegheny Mountains, is the best way to distinguish it from the grass pickerel. With few exceptions, the two fish are similar in appearance. The redfin pickerel is greenish gray to dark olive-bronze on the back, with shading down its sides. Over the sides are wavy or wormy-looking lighter markings that can appear as a series of vertical, irregular bars. The belly is white or yellow-tinted. The redfin’s cheek and opercle are fully scaled, and the black “tear drop” beneath its eye extends backward. The snout is short and broad and the fins are unspotted and reddish, providing its common name.

Habitat: Redfin pickerel inhabit the weedy shallows of slow-moving streams, as well as lakes and ponds. Although they are usually found over a soft, mud bottom, redfin pickerel prefer the water itself to be clear. They can live in naturally acidic water, like that which flows from the tannic-stained bogs in Pennsylvania’s northeast region. They can tolerate swampy waters with low oxygen content and brackish waters, where fresh water and ocean salt water mix.

Life history: Redfin pickerel spawn in spring, when the water temperature reaches about 50 degrees. The sticky eggs are randomly broadcast in the shallows over underwater vegetation and other organic debris. The eggs, which hatch in about two weeks, receive no parental care. Unlike larger pikes, the redfin does not include fish as a primary part of its diet. Instead, it feeds on small crustaceans, crayfish, aquatic insects and other invertebrates. The small size of redfin pickerel, as well as their restricted shallow-water habitat, may be why so few fish are on their menu.

Grass Pickerel Esox americanus vermiculatus
Species overview: The grass pickerel subspecies could be mistaken for the redfin, if their ranges were not so distinct. The grass pickerel is distributed throughout the Mississippi River watershed. The redfin is an East Coast fish. Where their ranges cross along the Gulf Coast, from Louisiana to Florida, the two small pickerel interbreed. In Pennsylvania, grass pickerel are found in northwestern Pennsylvania, in both the Lake Erie and Allegheny River watersheds, especially where the land has been glaciated. The grass pickerel’s subspecies name “vermiculatus” means “wormlike,” describing the wavy markings on the fish’s sides.



Identification: Grass pickerel rarely grow over 12 inches long, so an adult grass pickerel could be mistaken for an immature northern pike or muskellunge, except for the scaling that covers its cheeks and gill covers. Grass pickerel are usually not as distinctly marked as redfins, and they do not have a red tinge to their fins. The sides and back are greenish to grayish, and the flanks have lighter, dusky streaks that curve and tend to be vertical. The streaks may look like bars or just shadowy, wandering lines. Grass pickerel have a black bar beneath the eyes, which trails slightly backward. The fins are amber or dusky with no markings.

Habitat: Grass pickerel live in the marshy areas of lakes and ponds, as well as in slow-flowing sections or backwaters of clear streams. They are usually found in and around dense, rooted aquatic vegetation over a soft, silt bottom.

Life history: Grass pickerel scatter their adhesive eggs over underwater plants, when water temperatures in the spring rise to the low 50s, generally April. They may also spawn in the fall, but the survival of the fry is probably very low, and they may occasionally hybridize with northern pike. With its small size, the grass pickerel eats few fish, but feasts instead on invertebrates, aquatic insects, crayfish and other crustaceans.
Chain Pickerel Esox niger
Species overview: Chain pickerel are the most abundant and widely distributed member of Pennsylvania’s pike family. They are also the most often caught, biting the angler’s bait or lure readily. The chain pickerel’s original range was Atlantic and Gulf Coast tributaries, but the fish has been introduced elsewhere. In Pennsylvania, chain pickerel are restricted to the Delaware, Susquehanna and Potomac River watersheds. They are most common in the glaciated Pocono northeast.



Identification: Chain pickerel can grow to more than 30 inches long, but one of 25 inches and four or five pounds is considered a trophy in Pennsylvania. The state record is an eight-pounder. Two-pound pickerel are common where the fish have enough to eat. The chain pickerel hides easily in its weedy habitat, with its dark, greenish-yellow back, fading to lighter yellow-green along the sides. Over the sides is a pattern of dark chainlike markings that gives the fish its name. The belly is white. A dark mark, like a clown’s painted tear, appears below each eye. The fins are unmarked and pale. As is typical of pickerel, both the cheek and the opercle, or gill cover, are fully scaled. Chain pickerel have a long snout. The distance from the tip of the nose to the front of the eye is greater than the distance from the back of the eye to the end of the gill cover.

Habitat: Chain pickerel live in and around weedbeds and sunken stumps and logs in natural lakes, swampy ponds and manmade impoundments. They can also be found in the sluggish parts of clear streams and in the naturally acidic, tannin-stained waters that drain boggy wetlands, as in northeastern Pennsylvania. Chain pickerel are commonly shallow-water dwellers, but they can live in deep lakes. They don’t travel far from their selected home areas, and they tolerate a wide temperature range.

Life history: Chain pickerel spawn in early spring, when water temperatures are in the high 40s to low 50s. The spawning period lasts about one week. Chain pickerel are also reported to spawn in the fall, but the survival rate of eggs and young is suspected to be low. The sticky eggs, 6,000 to 8,000 typically deposited by each female, are scattered over underwater weeds. Chain pickerel have been known to hybridize in the wild with redfin pickerel, because their spawning site choices and breeding times overlap.

Just-hatched chain pickerel fry attach themselves to plant stems during the absorption of the yolk sac. Young chain pickerel eat aquatic insects and crustaceans, and are eaten by larger fish. As they grow, chain pickerel increasingly consume fish, which become the mainstay of their diet. At one year old, chain pickerel are about seven inches long. After four years, they are about 15 inches. Their natural lifespan is eight to 10 years.

Chain pickerel are solitary predators, feasting on fish, which they stalk through the underwater weedbeds, as well as crayfish, large aquatic insects, frogs and other small animal life that gets into the water. They feed during the day, especially at dawn and dusk, and are active through the winter, under the ice, so they can be caught by ice anglers. In ponds where they overpopulate and outstrip their food source, chain pickerel may become stunted “pencil pike,” or “hammer handles,” small in size and thin.
 

Attachments

  • redfnpkm350.jpg
    redfnpkm350.jpg
    12.8 KB · Views: 2
  • graspicm350.jpg
    graspicm350.jpg
    13.7 KB · Views: 1
  • chainpklm350.jpg
    chainpklm350.jpg
    13.1 KB · Views: 1
They are probably all chain pickerel unless you are catching them out of Rock Creek, which seems to have a good redfin population. I can't believe this is your first run in with them. This area is crawling with them and always has been.

Boyer

PS I just remembered, if it's the creek that hits the other creek right behind your house it has both species plus a few muskie from the lake.
 
I've not seen this as a general rule in PA streams. There are exceptions though, certainly. For example, small northerns are not uncommon in Oil Creek, both in the branches as well as the main stem down almost to Titusville, all of which is approved trout water. I've also caught a few in the slow, weedy flats of the stream below the Route 8 bridge, in behind the old refineries by Rouseville. These, I would assume were pike from the River
For that matter, largemouth bass (usually pretty small) are not uncommon in these upper sections of Oil either. The origin of these fish is pretty simple to figure out. The West Br. is the outflow of Canadohta Lake and the East Br. is the outflow of Clear Lake (also called Sparty Pond), both of which have viable pike and LMB pops.
We used to float upper Oil quite a bit for smallmouth with ultra light spin gear. The fish there always averaged bigger than in the State Park section below the Pine junction. Probably because the smallmouth fishery there was virtually unfished in those days. In high water years (when there was good escapement of pike from the lakes), we'd lose a half dozen lures to pike per day trip.

Otherwise, unless a trout stream has direct access to a river/body of water holding pike, I don't know where they'd come from. Unless of course, they are actually Chain Pickerel (which I know nothing about) or what we called "grass pickerel" a fish which tops out at about 11-12", which are pretty common in NW PA streams that are transitional in nature between CW and WW fisheries and are also approved trout water.
 
I don't know how i've never ran into them before, I've been fishing these streams/spots for the past few years pretty regularly. I've caught a few tiger muskie behind my house, but they are self explanatory.

One of the streams that I am catching is in rock, but I apparently don't know which one rock creek is? Is that a local term for the lower little swatty? I think the majority of the ones in rock might be red fins, based on all the pictures. Well, at least the ones coming out of the area below rock hotel. All these dang fish look the same haha. I'll just snap pics and let you all do the identification ;)

On a bright note, rock's been proving a nice summer trout location, the rain today brought a few to the surface for me!

As a curiosity question, I've always heard that pickerel were bad to have in ponds/lakes because they eat all the bass, is this true for trout as well? Because the one's I am catching are definitely capable of eating small trout.
 
gemiller wrote:
One of the streams that I am catching is in rock, but I apparently don't know which one rock creek is? Is that a local term for the lower little swatty?

Yup. Most locals don't even know that it is the Lower Little Swattie. I always thought it got a bit warm this late in the year so I leave it alone until September or so. Did you get a stream temp?

Boyer
 
Hhmm....
Judging by the size of the fish you've been catching and the fact that you saw a fish in the 2' range, it rules out the small native pickerals and narrows the options to chain pickeral, pike, or muskie. I'm skeptical that these are northern pike. As Rleep said, pike are common in creeks in western PA but less so in Skuke Co area. The only stocked muskies that I'm aware of in that county would be Swatara Creek (if that actually flows through Skuke Co?) and they're tigers. My guess would be they're chain pickeral. I have caught pickeral in small trout streams in my neck of the woods that have washed out of nearby lakes, although never in the concentration you describe. If you can see 'em up close, you can verify the species based on the presence of scales on the gill covers/cheeks and also by jaw pore count. However, a good photo should do the trick, esp if you can get a photo of one of the larger specimens over 12" long.
Interesting.

Some folks will tell you that pickeral (and pike and muskies and other "snakes") are detrimental to bass and trout pops and they do take some from time to time but I don't regard them as a serious threat. Bass, pike, muskies, and pickeral have co-evolved for eons and can often be found in good concentrations in the same waterways.
 
I've caught pickeral in wild trout streams.
The Swatara headwaters are in Schuylkill County. My best guess is that they are pickeral, either Chain Pickeral or redfin. Both are native to the Schuylkill Drainage.
 
Back
Top