A Clearfield Co. wild trout stream in trouble....

PACOFRANSICO

PACOFRANSICO

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Jan 7, 2010
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Hey guys a wild trout stream I fish is in trouble. Upper 3 Runs in Clearfield Co. is facing a proposed 580,000 gallon a day water extraction permit from the Carrizo Marcellus co. This creek is a very small wild brookie creek and can hardly keep a steady flow in summer let alone the water ext. The local fly shop is starting a drive to send emails to Andrew D. dehoff on there concerns and the possible precedints this could set for other wild trout streams in Pa.

Guys lets circle the wagons & join me in sending an email of concern to adehoff@srbc.net . I don't want other small population creeks to possible fall to big bisness. It can really make a difference.

Thanks,
Corey "PACO"
 
Paco,
hey i have two cabins in Brisbin/Houtzdale.You think after the logging did its damage people would learn ,then youd think after the coal people would learn...nope. Breaks my heart every time i go over Clearfield Creek ,looks like the Broadhead only wilder,My fiance's father is from Scotch Hollow and now lives in Ashland he has about two miles of Coal run running through his property and i always hear her Grandfather tell storie of all the brookies they used to catch when he and his grandfather fished it with string and bobby pins sharpened and fashioned into hooks,also Trout Run,all these streams suffer from Acid Mine Damage. really sucks especially since im half American Indian makes me madder than hell not just because of flyfishing but everyone needs water to drink also lots of people love to enjoy being by water.
For what ... the mighty dollar bill that isnt even worth anything anymore and is practically owned by foreign interests,leet alone the fact that all over the state the people doing the drilling and such are mostly from out of state and quite a few are illegal aliens.
As if Rendell cared,all he saw was money damn city boy who didnt give a hoot about Penn's woods.He ought to be run out of the state and this Marcellus is gonna really kill this state.
Youd think that the state would have proceeded with the waste coal to energy program especially in Clearfield County.
if they would have continued that ,it would clean up the seeps that have ruined the streams and also gotten something back as well as energy and jobs and bring back the enviroment too
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace
 
LoneWolve,
Send the email.

Paco,
Email sent. And that's for informing us about this.

I've fished that stream. I cannot understand why they would take water out of that little brookie stream, when the West Bramch Susquehanna is right there. If they are going to withdraw water, why not take the water right out of the river? Rather than taking it out of a small brookie stream, just before if flows into the river. Because taking water out of tributaries also reduces the flow of the river. Why not limit the damage by just taking the water from the river, rather than reducing the flow in the river, AND a small brook trout stream?

Does anyone know about this? Another example of this is that they are permitting withdrawal from the lower end of Fishing Creek, which flows into Bald Eagle Creek. Why not just take the water out of the larger stream, Bald Eagle Creek. Or better yet, go just a few miles away and take water from the West Branch Susquehanna below where Bald Eagle flows in?

The further down you take the water, the less impact you have. Because you are reducing the number of miles of waterways that have reduced flows. And there is no difference to the impact on flows of the large rivers. That would remain the same.
 
troutbert, in full agreement. I presume the reason is ease, maybe they'd have to truck from the river where they can just pump it up from the little streams? I dunno, just a guess.

Will send e-mail this evening...
 
Email sent..... Thanks for bringing this to our attention Lonewolve!
 
pcray,
The ease factor seems like the most obvious answer, but in the case of Three Runs, the distance from there to the river is very short.

The same is true of the distance between the lower end of Fishing Creek and Bald Eagle Creek.

I'm beginning to suspect that the Susquehanna River Basin people are NOT figuring in upstream tributary withdrawals to their water budgets for withdrawals from the larger waters downstream.

They may just look at the historical record for flows on certain waterways, then allow a certain percentage for withdrawal, based on that historical record. Without considering that the effect of upstream withdrawals will be to reduce the flows at downstream points.

It seems almost inconceivable that they would make such a fundamental error, but stranger things have happened.

I asked about that in my email. I hope I get a reply.
 
Email sent. I hope it helps.
 
They were taking water from smaller waterways in Washington County early on in the game. I don’t see trucks pumping from smaller creeks anymore. Water is now pumped 10 miles from the Ohio River in WV. They will do things better when pressured, and I hope this example helps in getting the necessary changes. Here’s a link on the Ohio River above ground water pipeline.

http://www.marcellus-shale.us/WV-Water-Project.htm
 
Jeff,
Don't thank me thank Paco hes the poster im just making sure most peeps are aware of why Clearfiled county and alot of western pa streams aren't usually talked about in books ,flyfishing magazines,and are not in a Meck/Landis/Wolf book for consideration.Also if most people would do a little tour of counties west of state college they would see that there are quite a few great trout streams that historically held Brookie populations and are running orange,if people cared about those streams as much as they pounded the streams from Centre County East .
They would have a ton more water to fish and enjoy,and dont think the Northern tier is safe either ,drilling is going Nutz right now all over northern tier.
What will you do when the water is gone from Slate Run/Cedar Run/Pine Creek/Kettle Creek or better yet source pollution of Frack water gets in the water there?We should all be pulling a Egypt revolution an demanding that gas and oil interests do things our way or leave.
When the aquifers start making people sick or getting cancer what then?
What about if they drilled and spring creek got hit or Penn's or Fishing Creek .
Wait and see what happens on the Upper Delaware?This is nutz, i have to give Ny state credit at least they aint folding on this yet and are standing firm.
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace
 
Lonewolve wrote:
Jeff,
Don't thank me thank Paco hes the poster im just making sure most peeps are aware of why Clearfiled county and alot of western pa streams aren't usually talked about in books ,flyfishing magazines,and are not in a Meck/Landis/Wolf book for consideration.Also if most people would do a little tour of counties west of state college they would see that there are quite a few great trout streams that historically held Brookie populations and are running orange,if people cared about those streams as much as they pounded the streams from Centre County East .
They would have a ton more water to fish and enjoy,and dont think the Northern tier is safe either ,drilling is going Nutz right now all over northern tier.
What will you do when the water is gone from Slate Run/Cedar Run/Pine Creek/Kettle Creek or better yet source pollution of Frack water gets in the water there?We should all be pulling a Egypt revolution an demanding that gas and oil interests do things our way or leave.
When the aquifers start making people sick or getting cancer what then?
What about if they drilled and spring creek got hit or Penn's or Fishing Creek .
Wait and see what happens on the Upper Delaware?This is nutz, i have to give Ny state credit at least they aint folding on this yet and are standing firm.
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace
Click to expand...

Thanks Paco! Keep us guys in the rest of the state informed on how this ends up!

Lonewolve I get what your saying. I hope board members here step up and do the right thing and send an email. It will take 5 min! Unfortunately a lot of PAFF members have the mentality that getting involved in this is a waste of time. Trust me I have posted on this subject a few times. You here a lot of " The drillers have to much money" or " I am sick of hearing about this" or my favorite " What difference can 1 person make, I don't have the time" Just think if the people in Egypt said this 18 days ago! Do the right thing and send the email! Here is a chance to make a difference.
 
Lonewolve wrote:
Jeff,
Don't thank me thank Paco hes the poster im just making sure most peeps are aware of why Clearfiled county and alot of western pa streams aren't usually talked about in books ,flyfishing magazines,and are not in a Meck/Landis/Wolf book for consideration.Also if most people would do a little tour of counties west of state college they would see that there are quite a few great trout streams that historically held Brookie populations and are running orange,if people cared about those streams as much as they pounded the streams from Centre County East .
They would have a ton more water to fish and enjoy,and dont think the Northern tier is safe either ,drilling is going Nutz right now all over northern tier.
What will you do when the water is gone from Slate Run/Cedar Run/Pine Creek/Kettle Creek or better yet source pollution of Frack water gets in the water there?We should all be pulling a Egypt revolution an demanding that gas and oil interests do things our way or leave.
When the aquifers start making people sick or getting cancer what then?
What about if they drilled and spring creek got hit or Penn's or Fishing Creek .
Wait and see what happens on the Upper Delaware?This is nutz, i have to give Ny state credit at least they aint folding on this yet and are standing firm.
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace
Click to expand...

Have you sent the email?
 
Email sent. Thanks for the heads up Paco. I've never been to the stream, but i'm happy to know that hopefully i've helped protect it and it's small green and orange inhabitants.
 
I was down at the shop today and the first thing I got asked is if I got my email sent. Then I told thew guys about putting a thread on the PAFF site about it. I was hoping to drum up some noise about this particular water extraction and the issues facing this states water sheds. I wanna thank you guys for the intrest and the emails in support .

This is a brookie I caught out of Upper 3 runs early this summer.
pricprint.jpg
 
email sent. we need to stay on top of this!
 
troutbert, Paco

Here's a copy of my email.

Susquehanna River Basin Commission,

Sirs & Ladies,

Hi, I wanted to let you know i think this is a big mistake with all the water that has been ruined here in Clearfield County already from mining and improper sewage drainage. You would think that this area of Pennsylvania has suffered enough from exploitation of natural resources. Of all things, taking water from a Class A trout stream, Upper Three Runs, that holds the state's fish, Salvelinius Fontinalis or Brook Trout should be considered criminal.

How is it that a company can just come in from out of nowhere and decide to petition for a resouce that should belong to every living thing. Clean water is necessary for life. Clean water that occurs naturally should not be given to corporate entities to profit from exploitation of natural resources.It is disparaging to know that you would even consider taking water to throw down in the ground with known cancerous causing chemicals, let alone the fact that it would probabaly dry up that tributary.Why not take water from the West Branch of the Susquehanna river, where it is located within easy access also.

What oversight will there be to police this operation? Already our state has suffered way too many numerous "accidents " at these well sites.What does it take for people to learn? Mistakes of the past should be learned from not be repeated, especially for profit. Historically you can drive around Clearfield County, and many counties both East and West in this great state, and see for yourself the shortsightedness of man's past decisions.

I feel that the argument that this will bring in more jobs, which ultimately doesn't answer the need to keep our water sources safe, should not be the reason to allow access to a limited resource. Most of these companies that do this type of business bring in their own people to work these gas wells. Which doesn't answer the need for more permanent jobs by people that live here.

I humbly ask you,better yet i implore you, to look within yourselves, to think hard and long before you grant any entity entitlement to any clean water in this watershed. Especially Clearfield County Pennsylvania where clean water is already at a premium. If not for yourselves, for the people of the future who will live, work, and raise their families here. Please say no to this and any future requests for clean water access by corporate entities that have only money as an incentive for coming to our state.

Respectfully,

Rick Wallace & Renee Myers



Thanks again for bringing this subject to the forum and to my attention. Clearfield county and Pa in general, fly fishing and clean water access are very important to me as they should be to all of us.

tight wraps & tight lines
Rick Wallace
 
I went to the fly shop this morning to B.S. 's with some people and was told that several WCO's have voiced there concerns and as well as Rep. "Bud " George has also gottin' involved. I can't see the area T.U. chapters setting on the hands either . But havent called about there involvement yet.
 
Good email, LoneWolve.

Paco, if you know some local TU guys, let them know. I sent emails to 2 TUers.

This might go beyond this one stream. They shouldn't be taking water from little brookie streams at all. If they are going to take water, they can get it from the river. Or mine drainage streams. There is a stream nearby, at Karthaus, that's completely dead from AMD. Let them take that water instead.
 
They've bin told already sent emails and a link to this thread
 
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