Help on Mayfly ID

dc410

dc410

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The Sheetz at Clarks Ferry is a great place to see many different kinds of bugs at any time of the day. Stopped there early Wednesday AM and these little guys were all over the gas pumps and trash cans. The one in the photo was probably a size 18, maybe a 20 but some of them were even smaller than that. Lookin' for some help with the ID. Thanks.
 

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I don't have the scientific answer for you. I don't profess to know more than a dozen Latin names nor do I really want to. I'll call them sulphurs, cahills, olives or other generic names.

I live a few miles down in Dauphin. From mid-May until early September, there is some type of sulphur / Cahill / steno type of hatch almost every night. when I take the dog out at around 11, there are anwhere from one to ten species on my car. They range from #12 down to #22. Wing shades and eye color / size vary from week to week. I've taken dozens of pics with intentions of looking them up but always lose interest before completing the task.

Pcray or one of the othe bug guys will have an answer for ya
 
Here's 2 from this morning. One is a #22 and the other is a #16-14
 

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OP: Can't really tell, poor pic. NOT a sulpher, as it has 2 tails. Could be a maccafertium (cahill), or something in the heptagenia (golden dun), Leucrocuta (little yellow quill), or Nixe genus's.

The others are generally the same. L. Hebe is a possibility. Though I find the short, squat nature of pic #2 weird, it should be identifyable.
 
P,

Based on the size, I thought the "chubby" looking one to be some type of summer steno and the tiny one to be from the family of olives.
 
kray,

Baetis variety BWO's have 3 tails and plain (non-mottled) wings. Drunella variety BWO's also have plain wings, and are much larger. I'm better at ruling out genus's than I am at identifying the proper one. :)

But, a steno is a possibility. The last two definitely have 2 tails, mottled wings. That narrows it down to these genus's:

heptagenia
leucrocuta
litobrancha
maccaffertium
nixe
rhithrogena
siphloplecton
stenacron
stenonema

Can't tell for sure on the 1st one whether the wings are mottled or not.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
OP: Can't really tell, poor pic. NOT a sulpher, as it has 2 tails.

There's actually a non-emphemerella species, Epeorous vitreus, that's commonly called a sulfur, that has only two tails. In the Catskills, it's probably the main insect that gets called sulfur. I don't know whether it's less common in PA, or whether it just gets called something else. (I personally don't think of it as a sulfur, but I don't have a better name for it, either.)

The fly shown isn't one of those, either, though - it lacks dark bands around it's front legs.
 
Yeah, I've always considered calling E. Vitreus a sulfur as being a bastardization. E. Vitreus is a pink lady! Err, umm, yellow quill. Err, umm, PED!

The truth is that there is no standard for common names. Nothing is "wrong". And one guys sulpher is another's cahill.

I'm merely rather biological based and do my best to keep the common names isolated within at least a family, preferably a genus or species. E. Vitreus is much more closely related to Quill Gordons, or even cahills and MB's, than it is to the traditional sulfur species.

The one that really gets my ire is BWO. Baetids, ok, there are a bunch of them, and they all look reasonably similar. I'm ok with calling them all BWO's. But then you have Drunella Lata. Totally unrelated, and the differences are quite important. It deserves a different name! Calling both groups BWO only serves to confuse people...
 
The one that really gets my ire is BWO. Baetids, ok, there are a bunch of them, and they all look reasonably similar. I'm ok with calling them all BWO's. But then you have Drunella Lata. Totally unrelated, and the differences are quite important. It deserves a different name! Calling both groups BWO only serves to confuse people...

To make matters worse, the original in England (where it only refers to one insect) is Serratella ignita, formerly Emphemerella ignita, which looks like (and is related to) a Hendrickson rather than anything baetid. (Picture here). It makes matters very confusing on international forums.
 
When I first started fly fishing and someone would ask me what I caught them on, I would reply something like "a brown bug." Now, I toss a little Latin around.
 
I thought "tossing a little Latin around" would land you in jail. You must have had a good lawyer. :-D
 
Question not intended to be entirely smartass: would a BWO fly be the best match for both "olive" bugs listed by Pcray? Likewise would the same Cahill or sulfur fly be as effective for both bugs that are "bastardized" by the same common name?
 
sipe wrote:
Question not intended to be entirely smartass: would a BWO fly be the best match for both "olive" bugs listed by Pcray? Likewise would the same Cahill or sulfur fly be as effective for both bugs that are "bastardized" by the same common name?

Yes for both. You really don't need a pattern for each species or sometimes even family of insects. Just try to get the size pretty close to the naturals and have fun!
 
BWO fly yes, as in, the two varieties of bugs are awfully similar in color. So if you were to compare a dun pattern of one vs. a dun pattern of the other, the main difference would be size.

For somebody fishing the 2 hatches, though, that's about where the similarities end. There is far more to fishing a hatch than merely the color of the bug. In fact, I'd say that is one of the least important factors to know about the bug, but unfortunately the most observable.

There's obviously differences in size, time of year, what kind of streams they come off of, etc. There are also real differences regarding what type of habitat they inhabit (riffles vs. pools, etc.), hatching behavior (and hence the effectiveness of nymphs, wets, emergers, floating nymphs, etc. in comparison to just duns). And in the spinner form, the colors are actually quite different, and Drunella actually offers excellent concentrated spinner falls which are worth chasing while the Baetis do not.
 
Likewise, the vitreus sulfur may look like the other sulfurs in size and color, so you could use the dry as the dun for either, except that the vitreus hatches on bottom, and flies off pretty quickly when it reaches the surface, so fishing a dun is likely to be less successful than for the other sulfur, and even there the "regular" sulfur hatches right in the film, and an emerger is likely to be a better choice. Spinner behavior is different, too. The vitreus sulfurs dip their tails into the water to deposit eggs; regular sulfurs drop them from above.

I think it's unfortunate that some insect share their names with fly patterns. I've often suspected that one of the reasons the Adams is such an effective pattern is that there is no insect by that name; it doesn't put anybody in the mind set that it can only be used during one hatch.

FWIW, I've had good luck fishing a yellow X-caddis over both types of sulfurs on occasion. Don't get too hung up on names of flies.
 
redietz sums up my views on this very well. It is one thing to describe a particular fly pattern. And "BWO" is fine by me if you hold it to merely a color description.

But this is the hatch forum, where we're identifying bugs. And you know what? If someone tells me they want to fish the BWO hatch on Spring Creek, they are describing a BUG, not a pattern that can sometimes be used to fish said bug. With that description comes all sorts of expectations. For instance.

This bug is of the Baetis variety. While it occurs pretty much everywhere, limestoners are generally considered to have the large, fishable hatches. It occurs in the early spring (late Feb. through April, with March as "prime time"), and again in the late fall (October-November). Though the larger numbers and size are in the spring. It's a mid-day thing, it can start as early as 11:00 a.m. or so but usually early afternoon. You can nymph it effectively before they start hatching, but generally, duns are the way to go. Fishing is typically better in drizzly weather. Pay particular attention to the current breaks dividing the main current and side eddies, it's where they often feed. Feeding is typically done in "pods". The hatch tends to come in "waves", and you can use this to your advantage. It's a well known hatch, and the first major one of the year, plus lots of waters are closed at this time, so there's usually plenty of guys chasing it. However, often a wave starts up in the early afternoon and dies off, and most guys get in their cars and go home thinking it's over. Don't. Very often, there's another wave coming. Overall, the times I've hit this one right have been my best fishing on often difficult limestoners, and I have topped 30 on multiple occasions. This requires a good hatch with uncrowded streams, so you can go from pod to pod and take the dullards. If you can move, it's a lot more efficient to do this than to sit over the tougher fish, which are still rising but have wisened up a bit.

Yet, someone who frequents larger freestoners is gonna look at me cross-eyed after reading this. They are familiar with the Drunella variety, which is a summer time bug, and acts, well, a lot like a sulfur. Emergers, spinner falls, and all that jazz. Just with a BWO color scheme. It's an entirely different bug in everything else that matters.

So, in the hatch forum, when talking about bugs and not patterns to match, I for one will continue to discriminate between wildly different bugs which happen to share a common name.

Otherwise, lets just call em all mayfly's. After all, an Adam's works for all of them, right?
 
We have them all over freestone streams in SE PA. Being a Marine Biology major and knowing some sun fish dialect I asked a few and they said its a tastesdeliciousalldaylongis. Who am I to question it.?
 
krayfish wrote:
I thought "tossing a little Latin around" would land you in jail. You must have had a good lawyer. :-D

Actually I think "tossing a little Greek around" lands you in jail.

Regardless, two month old post and just throw (two months ago) yellow dubbing on your choice of hook at them.
 
I agree it's two months old but it's a topic that takes up too much time in my opinion. If you fish anywhere but in the east the fly you are throwing has a name. It may be named after someone who has put the time into tweaking the fly through trial and error on the stream actually fishing. It may carry the name of the river,stream,area,or hole, guide but it is never named after a dead language. Just my humble opinion.
 
This is the "hatch and entomology" forum. We are identifying bugs, not fly patterns. I could do without the latin, but right now, that's the only naming method which is actually based on biological classification.

Often a fly pattern is named after the common name for a bug, or vice versa. But the two should not be comfused. You can use a March Brown fly to match a Hendrickson hatch with success. That does not mean that the bug is a March Brown.
 
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