Over lining a rod...

bigjohn58

bigjohn58

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Sep 23, 2006
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Can someone please explain when over lining (moving up a line weight) is a good idea? What's the pros and cons? I just purchased a 6'6" 2wt rod blank for small stream/tight cover fishing and several of the reviews I saw for this rod had guys putting 3wt line on it.
 
Over lining a rod will slow the action down and allow for easier short casts on faster rods. For your rod I'd try the 3wt line since you will probably be making short casts with it and others suggest it.. Not all rods should be over lined though and it boils down to preference
 
Overlining

Pros: It'll fish more like an actual rod than a toy/gimmick.

Cons: You'll know in your heart that you're just a lowly, dirty 3wt fisherman.


Not overlining

Pros: You'll be able to honestly tell everyone you fish a 2wt. (But you might not actually enjoy using the thing)

Cons: 2wts do everything a 3 or 4wt can do, just less gooder.
 
When 2wt rods first came out, I bought one - thinking it would be neat for fishing small streams. And it is fun - although I quickly figured out that casting a 2 wt line was a little more work. And started fishing 3 wt lines on it (and even occasionally a 4 wt)

Last year, I had an opportunity to buy and old Orvis far and fine rod - which is a 7'9" 5 weight. It has such a pleasant action, that I now use it for all of my small stream fishing.
And have pretty much mothballed that 2 wt
 
I have a three weight Orvis Clearwater II that I use almost all the time. Great for small creeks and rivers.
 
Well looks like I'll be putting 3wt line on my rod. I'm kind of surprised how stiff the 2wt is. I was almost expecting something like a wet noodle. Its one of the Rainshadow RX6 blanks. Suppposed to be like a moderate action. I'm actually rather happy its a little more on the stiff side.
 
Wanna know how a rod casts with the next heavier line?....strip out 4 or 5 feet of line and cast! :lol:

Fly line weight is all on a sliding scale:

A 2wt line weighs 80g @ 30'

A 3wt line weighs 100g @ 30'

Rough math (since fly lines are tapered in the front there will be even less grain weight difference / foot further down the line):

2wt = 2.7gr / foot

3wt = 3.3gr / foot


Casting 10' of 2wt line (27g) is roughly = to casting 8' of 3wt line

Casting 20' of 2wt line (54g) is roughly = to casting 16' of 3wt line

Casting 30' of 2wt line (80g) is roughly = to casting 24' of 3wt line

The line weights overlap at slightly different distances and the 20 grains of line weight difference between a 2wt and 3wt line is spaced over 30', which makes little difference in casting at fishing distances.

Every rod is different, but add the length of the rod and leader to the line lengths above, and one would can conclude you should be able to cast a 3wt line on this rod at all fishing distances with no problem. In fact, a little more mass in the line, especially in the light line weights often makes casting easier at the shorter fishing distances you plan to fish with the rod.

Post a pic when you finish building the rod.

Good luck


 
To expand on afish’s post, which is spot on in terms of the physics behind the concept…

Most rods have their suggested line rating determined based on how the rod loads when casting 30’ of fly line, what is considered a typical "average" cast. So taking that together with afish’s post, you can conclude that if you’re typically casting at distances significantly shorter than 30’, a heavier line weight will help you load the road to its sweet spot on those shorter casts. Since a 6’6 rod is typically used in a small stream environment, where most casts are very short, many FFers prefer to overline these type of rods for that reason.

Similarly, if you’re going to be bombing dries on a big stream like the D or Little J, and will be casting more than 30’ with regularity, it may be beneficial to underline the rod to keep from having to over-hustle it on those long casts.

The tradeoff in either of these examples is performance on the other end of the spectrum. An overlined rod will begin to work hard to cast the additional line weight as you start getting into longer casts. An underlined rod will struggle to load properly on shorter casts. The more line weights you under or overline by, the more polarizing the effect becomes. The suggested line rating is the middle of the road, jack of all trades, type of scenario and it best suited to moderate length casts. Each of these applications has its place though, depending on the kind of fishing you’re doing.

FWIW, I typically overline my Brookie rods by 1 line weight, and once in a while by 2. If I’m on a big stream fishing dries and anticipating making longer casts, I’ll sometimes cast a 5 weight line on a 6wt rod.
 
This post is great!

Only thing I have to add is consider the fly also. I have found that a 6/7 wt rod will cast beautifully with a DT5 if throwing a heavy streamer. Same if you add a sink tip with a light streamer. I would also caution on adding high stress to old graphite blanks by overlining, fiberglass holds up much better here IMO.

Very good post.
 
I GO ONE SIZE UP WHEN I USE A DT LINE. WF: I STICK TO THE SPECS. I FIND I CAN ROLL THE CRAP OUT OF IT BY GOING UP A LINE WT ON THE DT.
 
I figured this post would end up getting some interest...
 
salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
This post is great!
I would also caution on adding high stress to old graphite blanks by overlining, fiberglass holds up much better here IMO.
Click to expand...

No.

This is completely untrue.

By that logic, long casts over-stress graphite also as it requires more line out of the tip, thus "overlining" and stressing it.

The stress of overlining is literally nothing compared to the stress of landing a good fish, coming tight to a snag, hooking a tree, etc.
 
Hence the IMO.

I broke a graphite rod casting it a short distance in the tip section that was overlined 2 line weights.
It obviously had a fracture inside that was not seen with the eye. This rod was obviously going to fail at some point but years of use with it being overlined likely accelerated that process by the tip collapsing during casts. The logic works in that a long cast made with 5wt line on a 5wt rod is actually throwing 8wt. A long cast with 7 wt line on a 5wt is actually throwing 10wt. Over time I believe this can have an effect, again IMO.

And Again YMMV.
 
Here is a thread on the subject that discusses overloading rods and damaging them.
http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/82-spey-basics/264569-over-line-switch-rod.html#/topics/264569
 
I'm not an engineer but I think you put more stress on a rod bombing out a long cast than you do fighting a fish. I think it might have something to do with the quick change in direction. The rod is bending one direction in your back cast, then quickly in the opposite on your forward cast. More line speed = quicker change in direction and more stress. Look at a distance casting video to see what I mean.

I never overline, sometimes I underline. I've never felt a need to overline.
 
hooker-of-men wrote:
How about the same question, but with a 5 wt? Pros/cons of going up to 6 wt line on a 5 wt rod?
Click to expand...

It somewhat depends on how the rod works in the first place but, in general, going to a 6 weight from a 5 will make short casts easier, but will probably decrease the maximum length of line you can cast.

Look at it this way: any rod needs a minimal amount of weight of line out to load properly (call it X), and can carry in the air only a maximum amount of weight before the cast collapses (call that Y). Rods are rated such that the rated line weighs somewhere between X and Y with the amount of line out that the maker thinks the rod will mostly be used for. (Often this distance is 30 feet.)

The less line you actually have out, the closer the weight of that line gets to X, and may even drop below it -- try turning over a leader with only 5 feet of line beyond the tip to see what I mean. If you use a heavier line, you get up to X amount of weight with less line out. Now casting with turning over that leader with only 5 feet of line is easier. If you fish small streams with a 5 weight rod, it may make sense to overline to a 6.

On the other end of the scale, the distance you can cast with a rod is going to be the maximum amount of line the rod can "aerialize" plus the amount you shoot line beyond that. Assuming that you can shoot the same amount of line with either a 5 or 6, the maximum distance you can cast depends on how much line it takes to weigh Y. With the 6 weight, that will be less line than with the 5, and therefore you can't cast as far. (This of course depends on your casting ability.) If you regularly make 70 foot casts, you probably don't want to use the 6 weight.

Again, all this depends on the particular rod. If the maker thought that rod was going to used for longer casts, the rod probably got designated as a lighter line weight than one designed for shorter casts.
 
I agree moon.
https://books.google.com/books?id=zu97u1-fli8C&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=damaged+fly+rod+by+overloading&source=bl&ots=ipXz8RlpAB&sig=ZzNwyBOfVBe45As5oDd2PKEpyMo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwja6YnwvNzVAhUOySYKHT_oBwgQ6AEIXzAJ#v=onepage&q=damaged%20fly%20rod%20by%20overloading&f=false
Here is another interesting read on the subject. Obviously the action of the rod should be considered also.
 
salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
Hence the IMO.

I broke a graphite rod casting it a short distance in the tip section that was overlined 2 line weights.
It obviously had a fracture inside that was not seen with the eye. This rod was obviously going to fail at some point but years of use with it being overlined likely accelerated that process by the tip collapsing during casts. The logic works in that a long cast made with 5wt line on a 5wt rod is actually throwing 8wt. A long cast with 7 wt line on a 5wt is actually throwing 10wt. Over time I believe this can have an effect, again IMO.

And Again YMMV.
Click to expand...

The problem with this anecdote is that you admit that you suspected the rod was damaged and was going to break. You really can't say that overlining damaged it.

Maybe, just maybe, an extreme overlining would damage a very light rod. But a 3 or 4 wt line isn't going to ruin a 2wt. Particularly at average trout fishing casing distances, let alone the distances encountered fishing very small streams. Finally, it has already been pointed out in this thread, on two similar length casts, the weight difference is only a few GRAINS between the line weights.
 
salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
Here is a thread on the subject that discusses overloading rods and damaging them.
http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/82-spey-basics/264569-over-line-switch-rod.html#/topics/264569
Click to expand...

Pretty much the same conversation we're having here. A bunch of people saying go for it, and one saying it'll break your rod.

I underline or overline rods constantly. Sometimes it's to tweak performance, other times it's because my 5wt line is all crusty and shot to hell but my 6wt line is minty fresh and I just want to use whichever line is going to float and shoot the best. Other times, I want to punch out a bushy dry to some dumb brookies and a 4wt line on a short 3wt or 2wt rod is what I have to work with. Nothing bad has happened. Speculating about doing so damaging rods may seem like geeky, trout bum conversation but IMO it's just not relevant to the real world.
 
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