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Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

Joined:
2007/4/8 20:43
From SEPA
Posts: 11363
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I can't shoot line for crap, yes that's probably the ultimate answer and no I don't need to hear it repeated. Let's talk about interim and the effects over a longer period of time.

You want to deliver bulky flies as far as you can.

Your line choices basically amount to your choice of three WF tapers:
The "standard," closest to AFTMA rating, normal front taper/head.
The GPX, overweighted by a half line size, normal front taper/head.
The Expert Distance, back to AFTMA weight rating, but a 17' front taper to a 20' rear belly, to a SECOND rear taper and second belly to running line.

Being my line shooting skills suck, and I fish everywhere I go like a trout fisherman, false casting endlessly, it would seem to be that the long front taper would be the advantage here. However, is that super long 17.5' front taper going to kill me for turning over bulky crap at the end (think bass sized streamers, gurglers, et al).

If that long taper doesn't suck, I'd just probably go that route. As it is, I can false cast the head all damned day long, but trying to add a little distance I notice the whole thing alls apart into a massive tailing loop every single time.

Posted on: 2011/4/25 10:09
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April 8, 2007 - December 4, 2011.
And why not?


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.
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Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9017
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Quote:

gfen wrote:

I can't shoot line for crap, yes that's probably the ultimate answer and no I don't need to hear it repeated. Let's talk about interim and the effects over a longer period of time.

You want to deliver bulky flies as far as you can.

Your line choices basically amount to your choice of three WF tapers:
The "standard," closest to AFTMA rating, normal front taper/head.
The GPX, overweighted by a half line size, normal front taper/head.
The Expert Distance, back to AFTMA weight rating, but a 17' front taper to a 20' rear belly, to a SECOND rear taper and second belly to running line.

Being my line shooting skills suck, and I fish everywhere I go like a trout fisherman, false casting endlessly, it would seem to be that the long front taper would be the advantage here. However, is that super long 17.5' front taper going to kill me for turning over bulky crap at the end (think bass sized streamers, gurglers, et al).

If that long taper doesn't suck, I'd just probably go that route. As it is, I can false cast the head all damned day long, but trying to add a little distance I notice the whole thing alls apart into a massive tailing loop every single time.



Gary,

If you are looking for a line to cast bulky bass flies, I recommend the WF "bass" lines a heavy taper up front.

http://www.flintcreekoutfitters.com/product.aspx?zpid=1360

http://www.rioproducts.com/product.php?recKey=37

The extra weight up front will allow your rod to load with wind resistant flies and your l line should shoot through the guides like goose poop through a tin horn!!

Posted on: 2011/4/25 11:15


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

Joined:
2007/4/8 20:43
From SEPA
Posts: 11363
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Well, big ole bass bugs are part of it, but then so are chunky streamers, heavy streamers, and occasionally just regular old flies that I'd like to reach out and touch someone with.

AFAIK (or understand, really) the bass tapers just take the WFF concept further by beefing up, then shortening the head. Not sure if that'd help my awful ability on line shoot, but I imagine it'd be nice to try. I figured it'd end like my shooting head experience, which was lackluster and stupid. OTOH, I didn't tune the head deciding early on I didn't care and was only out one line I got for free on a fleabay reel, anyways.

(reviews Clouser taper)

Actually, that's pretty similar to the design that SA uses in the Expert Distance line, just without the stupid long front taper. I'd be totally into that if I could put one in my hands tonight or tomorrow...

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Posted on: 2011/4/25 11:58
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April 8, 2007 - December 4, 2011.
And why not?


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

Joined:
2007/7/2 19:40
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If you want distance-short as possible.
I would start with an 11wt.shooting head and trim about five feet off the rear so it would balance an 8 wt. rod..
Double haul and slam those big streamers out there.
Oops,confusing-
meant that is how I did it-then I used an amnesia running line-
You could easily splice in the smallest level line for a running line-since the taper is never in the guides unless you are landing a fish,no problem.
This is definitely the way to go for big bulky streamers.Much easier casting on windy days and for distance-Why they don't make lines like that,I don't know.
It works though.
Old goats secret weapon.

Posted on: 2011/4/25 12:00

Edited by pete41 on 2011/4/25 12:24:57
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Obstrification> The fine art of confusing liberals.


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

Joined:
2007/4/8 20:43
From SEPA
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No time for that, Pete. No luggage allowance for 4' of spin rod, either. I might just buy the Walmart special down there, though.

I did discover something I never expected, really. When I cast with undersized flies on an 8wt, I get tailing loops, but if I just weight 'em up they suddenly fly far better than before.

Which means unless it turns out the Bean's got 8wt bass tapers in stock, I'll keep the GPX for the fast rod and run the aircel through the CGR glass.

Posted on: 2011/4/25 14:50
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April 8, 2007 - December 4, 2011.
And why not?


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

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If you are coming soon be ready for heavy winds-tough year so far,lucky to get one day out of five with under 15 mph winds.Daybreak is your best bet-winds drop for a half hour or so.

Posted on: 2011/4/25 15:47
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Obstrification> The fine art of confusing liberals.


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Gary,

I'm guessing you "can't shoot line" because you're not getting enough line speed when casting those big flies. Try the line I recommended and/or learn to double haul. Also leave those dang DT lines you own at home...

Posted on: 2011/4/25 15:54


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

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If he is thinking dt on Florida flats-he will be like I was the first time I stepped out into the Yellowstone-
I was going to teach the hicks you don't need heavy tackle.-an hour later I was in Baileys buying a serious outfit.lol

Posted on: 2011/4/25 15:59
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Obstrification> The fine art of confusing liberals.


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

Joined:
2007/4/8 20:43
From SEPA
Posts: 11363
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No DT line on the big ones, just WFs. I just think part of it has to do with the whole timing situation, like I said, keeping the head and a few feet of runningline up isn't an issue, but I just don't have the magic to zing out running line.

Without even thinking about what I'm doing, I can single haul into the back cast. Adjusting internal timing for hauling into the forward cast is just a little practice away.

The double, though, has always eluded me. I've had the best on this board suggest I not worry about it last time we got together. How's that for sobering. :) Of course, considering I normally only practice this nonsense for one week a year doesn't help much, although it looks like I'm doing two weeks this year.

I'm not counting on flats fishin' for anything, really. I have a feeling its the various ponds of the development where I'll be spending the bulk of the time.

ps: How about the Medalist? Can I use that on the salt? You know your answer shall be irrelevant, right?

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(reverse the reels, though, better balance on the other stick vise-versa)

Posted on: 2011/4/25 16:09
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April 8, 2007 - December 4, 2011.
And why not?


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

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must learn to double haul if you are going to fish big water but if I could, you can-practice with the shooting head-easiest way to learn as you will know exactly where to start the cast.seriously
having that ingrained its actually very easy-or take a marking pen to the line at the point where you start the cast-

Posted on: 2011/4/25 16:27
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Obstrification> The fine art of confusing liberals.


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

Joined:
2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
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Watch old episodes walker's cay chronicles and you will be double hauling like a champ the next day.

It'll wear off after a day or two, but that's nothin' a few more hours of watching flip can't solve.

Posted on: 2011/4/25 16:29


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

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Don't knock the ponds-big bass

Posted on: 2011/4/25 16:42
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Obstrification> The fine art of confusing liberals.


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

Joined:
2006/9/9 22:43
From Delaware Co.
Posts: 3470
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Get the bass line Orvis even has one on sale right now make sure you have tweed get it for ya And work on your casting I have been fishing for shad this week and watching some of these people cast makes me cringe . People need to work on there casting just as much as golfers work on there golf swing . The double haul is a invaluable casting tool . You don't see golfers play with out using their driver do ya .

Posted on: 2011/4/26 5:16
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There is no disadvantage in being able to cast far"
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Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9017
Offline
Quote:

gfen wrote:
No DT line on the big ones, just WFs. I just think part of it has to do with the whole timing situation, like I said, keeping the head and a few feet of runningline up isn't an issue, but I just don't have the magic to zing out running line.

Without even thinking about what I'm doing, I can single haul into the back cast. Adjusting internal timing for hauling into the forward cast is just a little practice away.

The double, though, has always eluded me. I've had the best on this board suggest I not worry about it last time we got together. How's that for sobering. :) Of course, considering I normally only practice this nonsense for one week a year doesn't help much, although it looks like I'm doing two weeks this year.

I'm not counting on flats fishin' for anything, really. I have a feeling its the various ponds of the development where I'll be spending the bulk of the time.

ps: How about the Medalist? Can I use that on the salt? You know your answer shall be irrelevant, right?

Resized Image


(reverse the reels, though, better balance on the other stick vise-versa)



Yup Gary, just practice the motion of casting and hauling without a rod. Don't do it in front of people though, it may just confirm their suspicions about you. It's just like when you learned to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Practice a haul on the back cast only and practice a haul on the forward cast only. Then try putting both together. Your Dave R's star pupil..........don't let him down!!!

Posted on: 2011/4/26 6:40


Re: Long front taper vs short front taper and bulky flies.

Joined:
2007/7/2 19:40
Posts: 15154
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once you get the double haul down,then you move on to the real wind cheater-the side arm cast-tricky to double haul with a tilted rod but that way you never back or forecast into the wind but use it to help you.
Video please so we can watch your progress:}

Posted on: 2011/4/26 7:58
_________________
Obstrification> The fine art of confusing liberals.



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