Line to backing loop connection?

[TimB]

I'm rigging up some new lines for this year and was pondering the best way to connect the line to backing. Many decent lines now have a welded loop for attaching the backing. I rigged a couple lines with loops last year, but am still wondering about the best connection knot and if I wouldn't be better off cutting off the loop and just using a nail knot?

For most situations it doesn't matter because I've rarely, if ever seen my backing when fishing for trout, bass, or pike. The connection doesn't matter all that much. But I've been doing more saltwater fishing lately (especially bonefish). In this case, keeping a very compact knot that will easily pass through the guides at high speed is essential. Something about using the welded loop makes me nervous on my saltwater rigs. Any thoughts?

 

[ryansheehan]

Cut it off, use a nail knot.

 

[nomad_archer]

I have always been told to use an Albright knot from backing to fly line. Its much easier for me to tie than a nail knot. You could probably use the existing loop at the end of the fly line as the loop portion of the albright knot no need to cut the expensive line.

 

[dc410]

I wouldn't trust any of the welded loops, eventually they will fail plus that's a lot of bulk ripping up through your guides if a big fish does dump you into your backing. I saw my backing 2 or 3 times last season on my 8 weight while fishing for carp and I'm glad I had a nail knot connection. I would cut off the welded loop, tie a nail knot and apply a drop of zap-a-gap to the knot. An Albright knot is certainly a real good option for line to backing connection for a saltwater set up. Just a more secure knot for saltwater lines.

 

[TimB]

Yeah, common sense suggests that the manufacturers wouldn't provide the loops if they were unreliable, but my instincts are telling me to use the "tried-and-true" nail knot.

I'll definitely go that way on the bonefish rig. On a good day you'll see you backing many times there.

I might try the Albright knot to loop connection on one of my freshwater rigs to see how the bulk compares.

 

[kobalt335]

I only fish freshwater, so I always use the loop connection if the line has it. My salmon/steelhead reel I cut the loop though and just used an albright knot because it's easy and effective.

 

[tomitrout]

I like to nail knot a short bit of backing to the tail end of the line, about a 6" length or so with a perfection loop tied into the loose end. Backing then has a large enough perfection loop to pass the reel/spool thru, makes swapping lines from reel to reel a breeze.

 

[tridentfly]

By far the best knot on your backing is a spliced loop. It's got almost 100% strength, it's foolproof to "tie" and creates no "bump" in the line.

On the fly line side, there are many options, but I always use the welded loop except for some serious big game (think tuna, marlin, etc). If that's what you're fishing for, then I'd recommend a braided loop, per Trey Combs. He describes it here:

https://books.google.com.mx/books?id=YUYJ6EacqJsC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=trey+combs+braided+loop&source=bl&ots=eZqGoto0dp&sig=a8oEAF_r3zVkkgjuVfGCg515wxk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSytigrbjRAhUK6yYKHULmBscQ6AEIGTAA#v=onepage&q=trey%20combs%20braided%20loop&f=false

 

[gutcutter]

Anecdotally, I have caught hundreds of bonefish, dozens of adult tarpon and five permit with factory welded loops with no failures. I have replaced one loop during a trip that looked weak, and the nail knot didn't go through the guides as easily as the loop. On the backing side, I triple surgeons knot a 6" loop on 6-9 weight lines. I bimini twist a loop on 10-12 weights.
My $.02.

 

[krayfish2]

I've typically cut off the rear welded loop and attach a braided loop connection. I don't use the shrink tube that comes in the package but use 5-7 evenly spaced nail knots of 1x - 2x fluorocarbon to hold the braided loop in place. Goes through the guides like a dream...... should it ever have to.

 

[TimB]

I guess I'm still trying to wrap my mind around putting a large loop in the backing to make the loop-to-loop connection. I kind of get the concept that it's more convenient for swapping a line. But rather than hot swap a line that way while on the water I'd just swap spools with a second line if needed.

I really appreciate all the input on what seems like a basic concept. That's one of the cool things about fly fishing. You can make it a simple or complex as you wish!

 

[afishinado]

Welded loop on the fly line or loop made with 3 nail knots. Attach the fly line loop to a Bimini loop on the end of the backing and it never fails and allows easy line changes.

 

[tomitrout]

I guess I'm still trying to wrap my mind around putting a large loop in the backing to make the loop-to-loop connection. I kind of get the concept that it's more convenient for swapping a line. But rather than hot swap a line that way while on the water I'd just swap spools with a second line if needed.

I picked this up when I bought a couple of silk lines, if you need to swap the line end for end half way thru the day if makes it easy to do while streamside. Also makes it easy to move a line from one reel to the other to the other if you want to tinker with different rod/reel/line combos. Nice option to have instead of cutting and retying the backing each time you want to swap lines.

 

[TimB]

Okay, quick survey:

How many of you have actually swapped a fly line to backing connection while on the water?

The loop system may facilitate the connection, but you'd still have 100' of fly line to contend with. Doesn't sound like something I'd ever want to do while standing knee deep in the current or on the deck of a flats boat.If conditions warrant a different line than what I'm using, I just grab a preloaded spare spool.

 

[ryansheehan]

I use spare spools, if I need to switch I just pop in a new one.

 

[krayfish2]

Never on water but afterwards at base camp, yes. I have also changed spools / lines while fishing.

 

[sandfly]

welded loops on lines are junk, its just melted pvc material. the inner core is what makes a line strong, the outer pvc just gives it the taper. cut the loop and tie a piece of backing to it with a nail knot or double for larger weight lines. then tie a large loop in the backing piece with a triple surgeons knot. do the same with your backing. now you can do a loop to loop with even the reel because you have a large loop (mine are 12" long for each) easer to add or remove a line.