Tying questions...

[kbkpitt]

I am new to fly tying and have been wondering about a few things.

1. Thread size. I see 6 or 8...140 denier. Help me understand all this? Also brands...what's good, bad, or indifferent? A certain box store (orange check out bags) carries a brand I was not familiar with and it looks like a private label. Avoid or is it okay?

2. Hook size for nymphs vs dry? a size 12 hook for a glo bug or Nymph is not the same as a size 12 hook for a dry fly. Why?

I also see standard, 2 x, or 3x....and what does this mean?

Last one...Catskill original style patterns or go with a more modern method? What I've learned about FF is there is never a "right" way, but I am a traditionalist.

Thoughts?

 

[redietz]

1) Thread size -- there are two systems for measuring thread size the "ought" system (6/0, 8/0, etc) and the denier system. In the former, the larger the number, the thinner the thread. Unfortunately, it isn't based on any standard; one manufacturer's 6/0 is going to be a different diameter than another's. In general, though, 6/0 is probably going to be used for streamers and 8/0 or finer for dry flies.

The denier system is based on a standard -- unfortunately, that standard is based weight, not diameter. 140 denier means that 9,000 meters of it weighs 140 grams.) The larger the number, the heavier the thread. You might be using 70 denier for dry flies and 300 denier for streamers, but again how thick it is varies.

2) Hook size is traditionally based on the width of the gape of the hook. Like thread, there is no actual standard, but each maker has it's own "standard" size for, say, a size 14 hook. The standard will not just be gape, but length and wire thickness. If the hook has the gape of a size 14, but the length of size 16, it's said to be 2x short (the X means it's the length a hook two size smaller.) Similarly, if the size 14 hook is the length of a standard size 12, it's 2x long. Wire thickness works the same way, a hook can be 3x heavy or 1x light or fine (the thickness of a hook three sizes larger or one size smaller. It doesn't necessarily mean they make a hook that's 3 sizes larger or 1 size smaller, because modern maker tend to skip the odd size, but if they did make it, that's the size it would be.

Some manufacturers have complicated things by marking sizes like size 20, 2x wide gape. This is, by traditional measurements, a size 18, 2x short, but I believe this to be a case where they want to feed the egos of anglers who want to claim they took a large fish on a size 20 hook.

You might use a longer hook on a nymph to accommodate bead, a shorted hook to get a wider gape for the size of the fly, a lighter hook on a dry fly, and a heavier hook on a wet fly. Streamer hooks are going to be at least 3x long, and they're made as long as 10x.

Additionally, hooks are going to have different bends. There's round, sproat, limerick, curved, etc. (You can google them to see the differences.) Which one you use depends on what you want to use it for. Many people like to tie scuds on a curved hook, for example, and that's how the hook may be labeled. (Never mind that scuds in the water are actually rather straight, and are only curved out of the water.)

Only you can answer the Catskill style vs. modern stuff. I prefer the former, but I tie both. Either one could be more effective than the other on a given day.

 

[afishinado]

kbkpitt wrote:
I am new to fly tying and have been wondering about a few things.

1. Thread size. I see 6 or 8...140 denier. Help me understand all this? Also brands...what's good, bad, or indifferent? A certain box store (orange check out bags) carries a brand I was not familiar with and it looks like a private label. Avoid or is it okay?

2. Hook size for nymphs vs dry? a size 12 hook for a glo bug or Nymph is not the same as a size 12 hook for a dry fly. Why?

I also see standard, 2 x, or 3x....and what does this mean?

Last one...Catskill original style patterns or go with a more modern method? What I've learned about FF is there is never a "right" way, but I am a traditionalist.

Thoughts?

Most threads come in "ought" sizes:
3/0 heavy for bass flies or streamers
6/0 fairly heavy for bigger trout flies
8/0 fairly light for smaller trout flies
12/0 midges or very small flies

Start out using 6/0 thread for your trout flies and 3/0 for buggers and streamers.

Dry fly hooks are thinner gauge wire to float better while wet fly or nymph hooks are heavier.

The X's can mean 2x short or 2x long or 2x heavy or 2x light, etc. Just buy some standard dry fly hooks for your dries and standard wet fly hooks to get started.

Catskill flies require very expensive dry fly hackle to tie properly and require some skill and experience to tie. Try tying some wooly buggers and simple nymphs to get started before tackling dries.

Here is some suggested reading before you get started:

http://flyanglersonline.com/flytying/beginners/

https://www.scottcesariflytying.com/resources/beginner-fly-tying-class/part-1-tools-primer/

http://www.flyfishfood.com/p/fly-tying-class.html

 

[NewSal]

These guys already answered the other questions, the only one I can chime in on that hasn't already been covered is the big box store thread. I use it, and like it. It is comparable to a uni brand thread IMO. I actually prefer UTC thread but sometimes I cant make it to the fly shop so settle with using the big box store thread.. it works, but if you are looking for a more "flat style" thread, use UTC. The big box store brand is more of a rope style.

I'm not a thread expert but those are my opinions on them..

 

[PennKev]

NewSal wrote:
These guys already answered the other questions, the only one I can chime in on that hasn't already been covered is the big box store thread. I use it, and like it. It is comparable to a uni brand thread IMO. I actually prefer UTC thread but sometimes I cant make it to the fly shop so settle with using the big box store thread.. it works, but if you are looking for a more "flat style" thread, use UTC. The big box store brand is more of a rope style.

I'm not a thread expert but those are my opinions on them..

Which thread are you buying from "big box" stores and from what store?

I have never once seen a fly tying suitable thread available from a non-fly fishing retailer. All the threads I've seen in that sort of store are far to heavy and are a coarse twisted construction when compared to real tying thread. I'm not saying it's not out there, just saying that I have yet to see it. I guess m pretty skeptical on this one.

 

[kbkpitt]

Superfly is the brand I'm referring to and the store is Field n Stream

 

[edhank]

fly fish food says that UTC thread is hard to come by. Is that true? I've recently started to UTC, and absolutely love it. It would stink if I have to search for another thread.

 

[PennKev]

kbkpitt wrote:
Superfly is the brand I'm referring to and the store is Field n Stream

My post was directed at sal I thought he was referring to something found in the craft section of a Wal-Mart or something liie that but I get that he is referring to the Supefly.

I've used the Superfly and have found it to be OK. Not my favorite, but OK.

As an aside, I really wish we'd ditch the not-naming-names crap on these boards. If you mean Field and Stream, say that. If we're talking about Walmart, again be straightforward. Sheesh.

 

[nfrechet]

all about fly tying thread

http://globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table

http://globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-blues

http://globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/thread-control

SUPERFLY fly tying thread is a brand i havent heard of (means nothing really) but looks to be okay for tying flies

https://www.detteflies.com/superfly_superthread_6/0

 

[nfrechet]

edhank wrote:
fly fish food says that UTC thread is hard to come by. Is that true?

i dont think so

jstockard carries it as well as many other fly shops

http://www.jsflyfishing.com/utc-thread

 

[NewSal]

PennKev wrote:

kbkpitt wrote:
Superfly is the brand I'm referring to and the store is Field n Stream

My post was directed at sal I thought he was referring to something found in the craft section of a Wal-Mart or something liie that but I get that he is referring to the Supefly.

I've used the Superfly and have found it to be OK. Not my favorite, but OK.

As an aside, I really wish we'd ditch the not-naming-names crap on these boards. If you mean Field and Stream, say that. If we're talking about Walmart, again be straightforward. Sheesh.

I was refering to his original question concerning the big box store with the orange bags aka field and stream, and there thread. Yes I was talking about superfly. Sorry your panties got wrinkled and couldn't follow along

 

[shakey]

BTW, you could probably tye everything with just tan thread.