Upper Delaware - Cannonsville release question

[Fly-Swatter]

I'm probably just confused, but why would NYC restrict releases to about 200 CFS all winter then suddenly jack up the release to nearly 1400 CFS?

Check it out here.

Cannonsville has been at or near 90% capacity for over a month. The cumulative NYC water storage is above 90%

At the risk of asking a rhetorical question, why not release 350 CFS all winter then bump it up less when a big precip event (ie, 30-" of snow) happens?

I know they water authority is not beholden to the angling community, but why not serve both interests. It seems like it would be a win-win.

Any knowledge will be appreciated.

 

[vcregular]

Cannonsville was down to

 

[ryansheehan]

I think they have just become fond of screwing with the fisherman. There are some interesting things going on with ffmp, there is another thread dedicated to it.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Haha, those two explanations are currently at war in my brain. I'll check out the other thread.

I stayed away from the Upper D since early last Summer due to the low flows/drought. I live less than an hour from Hancock and would love to resume fishing that excellent river. So, I'm in late winter mild obsession mode and its messing with my head a little.

Thanks for your replies.

 

[krayfish2]

If you look at the normal flows over the winter, the release is typically between 100cfs and 225cfs. What's good about that? It allows the lake to fill up faster because of the reduced release. During the winter period of lower releases, there's typically more precipitation which feed the river down below the immediate spillway. Another benefit is that the lower and much steadier flows occur during the brown trout spawn. This should dramatically improve spawning success. So far, I'm seeing all good stuff.

Why is the release so high all the sudden? If you weren't sure, that area got 36" or more out of the last storm. They are o get a bit more Friday. That's a sh*tload of water sitting in those mountains. If the lake is at 90% and there's another 40% in snow hanging around, they got to make room for it. Without dropping the lake, spilling could be uncontrollable.... especially if there immediate rain following the snow runoff. We don't want an Orroville Dam situation. It's all good /safe. In fact, this higher flow comes at a time when the rainbows would be making their spawning runs up the feeders. The higher flows will make it easier for them to access spawning areas......another major plus.

At this point,it all appears to be good news and a favorable scenario for fish and fishermen. Just hope they don't drop it too far but several "water content" tests were just run by ACOE so they calculate the required storage that will be needed shortly. Lake from 17% to needing to dump water in less than 6 months is amazing to me!

 

[krayfish2]

Lastly email update from 3:08pm. Sent out by FUDR

Hi Everybody,

We wanted to share with you a note that we got today from Adam Bosch regarding the increased release out of Cannonsville:

Folks:

I hope this note finds you well. They say its spring now, but the red-breasted birds are hanging out on a 4-foot-high snowdrift on my back porch. What confusion!

I wanted to give you a quick update on our reservoir operations at Cannonsville.

After that blizzard swept through our region on March 14, we received several inquiries about whether DEP would change reservoir operations to account for the additional snowpack in the mountains. As always, we have sought to gather good scientific information before making a decision. Over the past several days, DEP has carefully measured the amount of water in the snowpack, used modeling tools to examine dozens of reservoir operating scenarios, and we've accounted for the input of regulators and stakeholders.

We also know that the watershed is likely to get some mixed precipitation this weekend. Although temperatures will stay quite cold, especially at nighttime, this is will push some additional runoff into the reservoir.

To account for all of this, releases from Cannonsville into the West Branch Delaware River will be maximized at a rate of 969 million gallons per day for upwards of a week. We intend to slowly ramp down that release in time for the opening weekend of trout fishing season, to a sustained release of approximately 350 mgd.

Please feel free to reach out to me by phone or email if you have any questions.

Best regards,

Adam Bosch, Director of Public Affairs, NYC Environmental Protection, Bureau of Water Supply

 

[falcon]

Kray, , I am a FUDR contributor and I got the same email. I think its a good decision.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Good info, Kray. Thanks!

 

[Lackcf]

Last summer the flows were pretty good. Sat consistently at 500 cfs pretty much all summer. If you go back 15-20 years, you would never see that consistent of flows in the summer.

 

[fisherboy3]

Well Kray....

Now we get super high releases before AND after the main season!! September-Novemeber the last few years they pump 1200+ on the west branch...now they do it before the season even starts... I just hope during the normal season they dont go from 750-75 in a matter of a few hours like they did back in october. A release of 500 from april-october with normal precipitation amounts during that time would be awesome.

 

[krayfish2]

Kev,
They've got to make room for the impending snow melt. It's not an issue (at this point) and they claim to ramp it down in a week. If they do ramp it down, that's a pretty big improvement over the standard on/off procedure they'd been using for years. Storage in the system is pretty solid for this time of year. Freestone flows like WB at Walton and Beaverkill at Cooks Falls are considerably lower than normal which is a concern. I imagine they will bounce back once the snowpack starts to melt. Just hope it's a slow melt to keep water in the river for a longer period of time. There's still a chance it could spill 3 weeks from now....who knows?

If I'm not mistaken, the long range forecast was showing a change in patterns which should put much more frequent rains into the Northeast. We still need many good soakers to get out of the drought. Dig down 6"-8" and the ground is dry like the desert. The slow met of snow we just had hopefully soaked in pretty deep.

Now that there's water for the season (and I honestly doubted they would have surpassed 80% storage), the issue will be releases. Don't know where things will end up with the FFMP due to the arguing between interested parties. If they revert to the old table, you're looking at releases so low that you'd be able to wade across the home pool at the DRC. No good. Wallenpaupack should be back in normal operation after last year's draw down to fix docks. NY shouldn't have to dump as much to meet the Montague minimum flows.

Hoping for a fairly wet and cool spring / early summer. We could be seeing a very good year for NE tailwaters.

 

[fisherboy3]

Im hoping for a wet spring and summer. I dont mind fishing in the rain/overcast skies casting size 20 olives to heads...or tossing meat in dirty water either.

If it spills over....ill be there.

 

[krayfish2]

Yep, suicide runs if it spills but don't expect to take the cover off for 3 more weeks.

 

[LongWader]

Cannonsville is back down to about 87%.

We will see what happens this Spring, but like others said the is rain the forecast the next couple of weeks.

 

[vcregular]

2"+ of water still left in the snow pack in the D basin. Not sure how accurate this map is, but it seems like the days of Cannonsville spilling in the spring are gone.

 

[krayfish2]

With the warmer temps...and as predicted, the inflow gauge at Walton went from 400cfs to 3200cfs and is still climbing. Stilesville is holding steady at 1400cfs. Looking good IMO

 

[Lackcf]

I don't think they would ever revert to the old table. Too much business relies on decent flows and relations are the best they have been in years. The state would not risk releasing flows that would prevent fly shop/guide service boats from getting down the river during the open season... now closed season that's a different story. Just look at some of the flows late last year after the season closed down...

 

[fisherboy3]

What about the flows this past may? When stilesville was releasing 200? And the air temps were in the high 80s. Water down at Lordville was 70 already and it was only may. Its not the state, its NYCDEP. Whatever is best for them is what they will do. And theyve done that multiple times in the past few years, shutting the water off.

 

[moon1284]

Fisherboy is correct. the purpose of the dams are (in order of importance)

1 supply NYC with drinking water
2 flood control
3 (distant 3rd) supporting a cold water fishery

I have a feeling if power producing turbines are added they will bump the cold water fishery to 4.

I question a lot of the release decisions and think they could achieve 1 and 2 and do a better job on number 3, but at the end of the day it's an artificial fishery with nonnative fish that wouldn't exist if the dams were not built.

 

[krayfish2]

As for this past year, the fall releases were a result of being almost empty and no rain. There wasn't much they could do. Like Kev said, the May 2016 releases were a serious problem. WB water temps at 191 bridge reached 70+ before the end of May. .