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Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

Joined:
2010/6/26 11:19
From Along the Lehigh Above the Gap
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LOL yes because we need another problem to worry about. My understanding is it is a go. All funding was approved, Guess they just have to do some studies before any construction begins. I actually brought this up with Doyle Heffely in a meeting and he just said it would not change the temps or flows. I find the flows part hard to swallow. Who knows, but have not heard anything recently.

Posted on: 2012/12/26 20:18
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Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

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2012/10/24 19:22
From Landenberg, PA
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1 &2 on that list should looked at for fixing rather than being reasons not to maintain a class a stream, and those brown trout may have just as likely come up from the poho or even lehigh to spawn.

I have every sympathy for the couple and I hope TU and other orgs can assist them in a solution that helps them reopen the hatchery, but not at the streams expense.

It sounds like they have a B&B business to run too though so its not a complete bust for them - and on a side note, who would order farmed trout or salmon to eat thesedays ?

Not me guys for sure.

Posted on: 2012/12/26 22:22
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Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

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2012/9/26 17:10
From Berks County
Posts: 34
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Quote:
It sounds like they have a B&B business to run too though so its not a complete bust for them - and on a side note, who would order farmed trout or salmon to eat thesedays ? Not me guys for sure


I don't think it's for the B&B, I believe it's for the LRSA to stock the Lehigh River.

Edit... Okay i re-read the article and understand your question. My apologies.

Posted on: 2012/12/27 11:57


Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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First things first, when the 2 dams were built the Lehigh and Pohopoco were both brook trout fisheries. ACE built the dams for flood control and at that time since there was no mandate to protect and restore, there was nothing in place to restore damaged fisheries.
Now there is, and before anything happens the Lehigh and Po Should be restored to brook trout fisheries. There should be NO stocking of invasive species at all. Furthermore if you wish to dispute this, refer to JJ Audubon's dairies.
That being said, Saw Mill Creek is and has been for a very long time a mixed trout fishery. You could argue that it was as a result of the hatchery being there, but I'd argue that it was probably as a result of early stocking by the Old Fish Commission in the late 1800's that brown trout became established.
There is NEVER any justification to stock ANY Class A trout fishery. The fact that there are still brook trout in the stream tells me that they've always been there and everything that can be done to protect them should be done, including removal of the browns by means of harvest.
Now nothing has been said about Kriss Pines being a commercial hatchery, which it always was. But because the laws against pollution have changed it should not be grand fathered. Why a State Representative is involved is beyond me as he has NO authority to enforce or change PFBC laws, regulations, or policies.
As for using the hatchery to help raise fish for stocking, it has to come within the laws that are in place now.

Posted on: 2012/12/27 15:47
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Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

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2006/9/13 10:18
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Fish efluent is what closed the hatchery on Big Spring and nearly closed other PFBC hatcheries. All of the hatcheries have had to be upgraded in the last ten years to meet DEP and EPA regulations. There is no reason why this hatchery should get by without treating the efluent.

Posted on: 2012/12/27 15:51


Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation
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Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9061
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+1 to Chaz above. IMHO, we should be all about doing everything possible to clean up the streams we have dumped on in the last 100+ years.

Posted on: 2012/12/28 7:48


Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

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2011/7/6 13:48
From Philadelphia PA
Posts: 1652
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I'm not really pleased with what I read. What did they plan on doing with the waste in the first place? dump it in the watershed? Starting a business without doing homework is a disaster. Up at Noximoxin where I take my boat out I have seen a few buildings change hands at least 4 times. from bikes to fish and tackle to barbecue...not sure what it is now. Just from this experience tells me that the location is not good.
I do however commend them on their efforts....If indeed the fishery is 100+ years old, maybe they should restore it to its original and open it as a museum.

Posted on: 2012/12/28 8:25
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Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

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2006/9/11 13:33
From Lehigh Valley
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The Po is supposed to be one of the tailwaters under consideration for the tailwater enhancement program. From this article:

“Therefore, the commissioners direct the executive director to actively seek and maximize opportunities available to protect, conserve and enhance, wherever possible, wild-trout populations in tailwaters below existing reservoirs.”

What a great idea! Let's enhance the Po by pumping lots of fish crap into it!

Wanna see what the wild trout population in the Po can become? Let's start by making the WHOLE LENGTH of the stream below the dam C&R regs - w/no stocking. And how's about making the stretch between that ridiculous Parryville dam down to the mouth a no fishing thermal refuge area? Better yet, rip that damn dam out. Let Palmerton get their water from the Aquashicola. Jeez, it runs right through town. Or pump water from the Lehigh - it's much closer than the Po.

Create a top notch tailwater fishery out of the Po, and the Cressley's would be too busy making beds, and cooking breakfasts at their bed & breakfast, instead of making rubber fish to be stocked for Lunkerfest. The fish that are currently stocked in the Po could be stocked in the Lehigh. The 20 grand per year that the LRSA has to raise for stocking could be used to purchase leases/easements on the Po to increase and improve angler access.

Who's with me?

Posted on: 2012/12/28 8:35
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Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

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2010/2/18 8:57
From SW PA
Posts: 750
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Hmmm. Ya know I read this thread yesterday and had to think on it for a spell. But if the business in question was anything other than a trout hatchery, then NO ONE would be talking about grandfathering anything. You make an exception for one business, you open the door...

Posted on: 2012/12/28 9:16
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Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

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2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
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Quote:
Here are some reasons:

1. Runoff from both the Pennsylvania Turnpike and Fairyland Road discharges into Sawmill Run.

2. Dams are located upstream of the hatchery property and these dams heat up the water in the summer.

3. The fish that were found in the Sawmill Run were brown trout, a species not native to the United States. The only way that the brown trout could have gotten into Sawmill Run is from the trout nursery when the trout were used to stock the creek during the days when Kriss Pines had a pay-to-fish operation. So the Cressleys wonder how can they be penalized by fish breeding in the creek when the hatchery put the fish in the creek initially.

4. The fish hatchery was operated for a century and only closed for three years. It should have historic standing.

5. The Lehigh River Stocking Association plans to operate it using the best methods that are possible and reasonable but would not be able to meet the requirements of a pristine discharge.


Holy crap. This sort of reasoning should have every wild trout enthusiast in the state livid. Could you imagine the outrage if this was the reasoning given behind sacrificing a wild trout fishery for a gas well?

1 - Almost every watershed in the state is affected by runoff from roads to some degree

2 - Ditto.

3 - Probably the most offensive and self serving reasoning in this list. A wild brown trout population has likely existed since the first stockings. This particular hatchery has nothing to do with it. The stream would have likely been populated by browns at some point regardless of whether this hatchery was ever constructed. Additionally, the invasive species point is a red herring. These aren't snaked heads, or asian carp, or goldfish. The fact of the matter is that some "invasive" species are desirable, brown trout often being one of them. A viable population of invasive wild browns is far more desirable than a degraded stream stocked with hatchery trout. If a trout hatchery can degrade a wild trout stream because they regard the trout as invasive, then what stops a gas company, steel mill, or paper mill from using te same tactic?

4 - Plenty of industries operate for decades then are forced to change their operations due to environmental concerns. This is no different.

5 - I geuss this is really a matter of how far short they fall from pristine.

Posted on: 2012/12/28 9:47


Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

Joined:
2011/7/6 13:48
From Philadelphia PA
Posts: 1652
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1. Come on guys...We have enough polutants running in our watersheds already...why add to it?
2. Does the water flow over the top of the dam or from the bottom side? If it flows from the bottom the water will be cold year around.
3. We can blame the president's of past for invasive species...even Brown Trout. We should not choose between more desirable and least. Invasive species is invasive species and they all change the watershed environment.
4. That's why I suggested it being turned into a museum.
5. That is like recycling our toilet water for drinking purposes. If it is not prestine- would you drink it?

Posted on: 2012/12/28 21:40
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"I am respected when I walk into any fly shop. Salespeople wait on me hand and waders. I once tried underwater casting just to see if I could. I am the most admired Fly Fisherman in the world. And when I fly-fish, I use the Orvis Access. Stay Fishing MF


Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

Joined:
2010/6/26 11:19
From Along the Lehigh Above the Gap
Posts: 7163
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Penny,

What are you talking about, when your speaking about the type of dam?

Posted on: 2012/12/28 21:44
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"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together, in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine. So tonight, I make a toast!"

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Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

Joined:
2009/10/15 13:45
From Eastern PA
Posts: 10291
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I think chazs idea is brilliant. Harvest the browns to a level where brook Trout biomass will not support HV requirements and turn the place into a dump.

Posted on: 2012/12/29 2:53


Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

Joined:
2011/7/6 13:48
From Philadelphia PA
Posts: 1652
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Some dams have discharge (open the flood gates) over the top and others have discharge from the bottom of the dam. Since water is cooler well below the surface, water flowing out will remain cold year around.

Posted on: 2012/12/29 7:47
_________________
"I am respected when I walk into any fly shop. Salespeople wait on me hand and waders. I once tried underwater casting just to see if I could. I am the most admired Fly Fisherman in the world. And when I fly-fish, I use the Orvis Access. Stay Fishing MF


Re: Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7749
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Jdaddy, you have some explaining to do on your comments.

Posted on: 2012/12/29 8:04
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There is always time to do more to protect wild trout.



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