Dirt forest roads

[salvelinus]

There is concern about dirt roads and runoff into streams causing siltation. I have seen a lot of forest roads that have been gravelled to prevent this. Cedar Run Road in Lycoming/Tioga counties is an example.

This road is unique in that it is also a township road. In the last year Elk township on the Tioga side has fully gravelled the road from Leetonia to the Lycoming line.

However, I just read this in the Slate Run newsletter. "Cedar Run Road was heavily oiled by PennDOT last month between Rt. 414 and Tumbling Run." How is this good for a Class A wild trout fishery? What happens during heavy rains? How was PennDot allowed to do this? Where did the DCNR and PFBC stand on this? Can anybody shed some light on this?

 

[timbow]

PennDOT can do whatever the hell they want without repercussions. Think about the amount of road salt they put down every winter and where it all goes when it melts. Huge amounts of chlorides entering the streams. People get all up in arms about private companies like mining, oil & gas, construction, etc. when they have an accident or potential for an accident but the same people give PennDOT and other government agencies a free pass to do whatever they want. Just imagine the outcry if an individual or company proposed to dump 900,000 tons of salt on the ground, which is what PennDOT used in 2017.

 

[Swattie87]

Though I legitimately feel bad for camp owners if the road ultimately becomes impassable for them, I'm otherwise never sad to see a state forest road closed to vehicles.

Came across several of these situations in Sullivan County where nature is beginning its reclamation process on road grades that were damaged in one of the many floods that area has experienced in the last 10 years, and repairs have not been undertaken. Only makes the fishing in that area more appetizing IMO if you have to hike in to get to it.

All along PA SF's are road grades that were once open to vehicles that are now in various states of turning back to nature. Many of them actually began as railroad grades. Some are down to just foot path trails now, but most still have some evidence of their grading remaining and are real "superhighway" trails from a hiking standpoint.

Again, feel bad for camp owners who can't get a vehicle to their camps though. I'm seeing more and more gated SF roads with camps along them though. I'm assuming the camp owners are given keys to the gate to access their camps. I'm also assuming that it's the camp owners responsibility to maintain the gated portion of the road (kind of like an extended driveway) so as they can continue to access their camp by vehicle. Good balance IMO.

 

[salvelinus]

Swattie, the road is fine, it just needed some attention. It is beautiful on the stretch from the Lycoming line to Leetonia. It was essentially "paved" with a thick layer of packed gravel, eliminating most of the silt runoff from heavy rains. From Cedar Run to the Lyco line, it was mostly bare dirt with a lot of potholes. I was hoping the powers-that-be would do the same to this stretch as was done to the other one.

No doubt the oiling with improve the road, but I question how is that an environmentally sound practice next to a Class A wild trout stream.

 

[troutbert]

The main damage from roads to trout streams isn't to the water quality.

It is damage to physical habitat from the constraining of streams from the roads that have been built in the floodplains of the streams.

In the case of many small streams on forest lands, it is common for the road grade to occupy all or a large part of what had formerly been the floodplain. The road has totally eliminated the floodplain.

So the stream is reduced to being a simple, straight ditch that is pinched between the fill of the road grade and the hillslope on the other side.

Streams in this condition tend not to form many good pools or good cover. Which limits the trout population the stream will support.

 

[salvelinus]

Not the case here as most of the time the road is cut into the hillside well above the stream. Especially the section in question.