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A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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Posted on: 2013/9/23 11:02


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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Orvis has a similar program going. May help some PA streams in the process.

http://www.orvis.com/intro.aspx?subject=9848

Posted on: 2013/9/23 11:58


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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Don't get all upset at me, but...

My first impression is that this looks like a giant debris trap. I agree that the old elevated culverts are a big problem, but that video looks like fixing one problem with another. Definitely a huge improvement when it is working though.


Posted on: 2013/9/23 13:57
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Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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I've heard some PA TU and PFBC talking about working on fixing culvert issues here in PA.

This is not entirely new. In 1998 an alternative to the old style culvert was built on Sixmile Run in Centre County. It is a concrete double box culvert.

I agree with FD that the structure in the photo is likely to get jammed up with debris, i.e. trees washed down by floods. That's often been a problem with traditional culverts and bridges.

We have some engineers on here. What would be a solution to that? The same structure but just much larger?

BTW, the article says the cost for that structure is $10,000. Seems low.

Posted on: 2013/9/23 21:53


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt
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The purpose of these culverts is to maintain the original bed for the purpose of fish passage. When installing a culvert through the permitting process the DEP requires the invert to be set at least 6" below bed level to provide bedload substrate to remain in the pipe and allow fish passage. Often in the past pipes would be installed with a drop from the invert to the stream impeding fish passage.

With round or oval pipes it is difficult to maintain bedload in the pipes due to scouring rain events. It would be interesting to see the footer and foundation designs on these as I would imagine there would be significant downcutting and undermining of footers during scouring events. This would cause the pipe to drop over time compromizing the roadway above.

Posted on: 2013/9/23 23:46
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Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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Conspan culverts are installed in Pa as conditions permit. The material costs are significantly more compared to conventional culverts but sometimes there are savings in installation. I permitted a driveway replacement for a client a few years back. To my knowledge its holding up pretty well.

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Posted on: 2013/9/24 3:03


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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Quote:
We have some engineers on here. What would be a solution to that? The same structure but just much larger?


i.e., a bridge. :)


Posted on: 2013/9/24 14:47


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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I don't think it meets the strict definition of a bridge as there is still an embankment and no abutments are present. The concrete sections are similar as you would find in a box culvert. The main differences from a box culvert is the elongated span. They can be made to look like a bridge but its really not.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 15:30


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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Maurice
The foundation is keyed and extends to bedrock. Often the stream bed under the structure is armored with rip rap to prevent scour. A detailed scour analysis is required as part of the design. A bridge is probably better but costs more.

Posted on: 2013/9/24 15:39


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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My thinking in my earlier post was that the rip rap is what would make it a debris trap.

But if it is big enough (compared to the stream), debris won't be an issue. It will act like a bridge.

I did notice the road crews over here replacing a few old bridges and culverts with long rectangular concrete tubes. It looked to me like it would have the same result only no rip rap needed. The arch is however stronger.

I'm not a civil engineer though.

Posted on: 2013/9/25 10:40
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There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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What are some specific sites where culverts are harming the fishery, and need to be replaced?


Posted on: 2013/9/25 14:48


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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Anywhere where the outlet of the culvert pipe is elevated above the creek. It's quite common.

Posted on: 2013/9/26 6:25
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There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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I'm asking for specific locations that people have seen that need work, i.e. XXXXX Run, where XXXXX Road crosses it.


Posted on: 2013/9/26 8:09


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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Troutbert

On Dunbar Creek across from the Gun Range there is a pipe that is a problem. It carrys Elk Run to the confluence of Dunbar. Elk Run has native brookies in it. the cuvert drops at least 4 feet from invert out to the stream bed. CRTU contacted PennDOT concerning repairing it as the area around the pipe ultimately will cause a road failure but got no response. Its Dunbar Ohiopyle Road, not sure what the SR number is though.


Posted on: 2013/9/26 13:47


Re: A great idea , wish Pennsylvania would adopt

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Quote:

albud1962 wrote:
Troutbert

On Dunbar Creek across from the Gun Range there is a pipe that is a problem. It carrys Elk Run to the confluence of Dunbar. Elk Run has native brookies in it. the cuvert drops at least 4 feet from invert out to the stream bed. CRTU contacted PennDOT concerning repairing it as the area around the pipe ultimately will cause a road failure but got no response. Its Dunbar Ohiopyle Road, not sure what the SR number is though.


Good example.

Posted on: 2013/9/26 14:31



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