General Questions

[bmcdonald1217]

Good Afternoon Everyone,

I went out yesterday for the fourth time in my life. No luck but still pummels the hell out of a day at the desk.

Anyways I had a few quick questions, which I'm assuming can be easily answered. Here goes:

1. I have an 8.5 ft. rod with 5x weight forward line and leader. I noticed when casting with nymphs, my line extended out beautifully and unfurled just how i wanted it too. However, when i added a little weight via a split shot or tied on a size 10 BH bugger, I didn't get the casting results I wanted. My line would have way too much slack when the lure ultimately hit the water. Do I need to change the tippet size if I'm going to have anything with much weight on the end?

2. Even when fishing a BH bugger, if you're in quicker water, is a little split shot advisable?

3. Speaking of shot, if I'm fishing a terrestrial or nymph should I apply enough shot so I can feel it hitting the bottom in a drift?

4. How often should your change leader?

Thanks everyone and have a Merry Christmas!

 

[afishinado]

bmcdonald1217 wrote:
Good Afternoon Everyone,

I went out yesterday for the fourth time in my life. No luck but still pummels the hell out of a day at the desk.

Anyways I had a few quick questions, which I'm assuming can be easily answered. Here goes:

1. I have an 8.5 ft. rod with 5x weight forward line and leader. I noticed when casting with nymphs, my line extended out beautifully and unfurled just how i wanted it too. However, when i added a little weight via a split shot or tied on a size 10 BH bugger, I didn't get the casting results I wanted. My line would have way too much slack when the lure ultimately hit the water. Do I need to change the tippet size if I'm going to have anything with much weight on the end?

2. Even when fishing a BH bugger, if you're in quicker water, is a little split shot advisable?

3. Speaking of shot, if I'm fishing a terrestrial or nymph should I apply enough shot so I can feel it hitting the bottom in a drift?

4. How often should your change leader?


Thanks everyone and have a Merry Christmas!

bmc,

1. Your rod and line seems to be okay. I assume you mean a 8.5' 5wt rod with 5wt WF line.

Ironically, all you've been told about casting with a tight loop doesn't apply when you add weight...lol. With weight, it's best to lob your fly with a big loop. With a bugger, I would recommend a 3x or heavier tippet. BTW, with the "X" sizes, the lower the number, the heavier the tippet, so 3x or 2x should do the job.

2. A bugger with a bead or cone is usually enough weight to get down to the fish. You may want to add some shot in the faster/deeper water, though. Try to stay away from using too much weight until you become more proficient at casting heavier stuff.

3. Use weighted flies and/or add enough shot until you tick on the bottom every so often. I often fish with a little weight (sometimes the fish are chasing above the bottom) and keep adding weight until I begin to catch fish, or I begin to feel the bottom.

4. Tie a tippet (24" +/-) to the end of your leader. The tippet "X" size should be the same or one size smaller than the end of the leader. For example, with a 4x leader, you can tie on a 4x or 5x tippet. A leader should last quite a while if you cut from the tippet and not the end of the leader. When the leader becomes too short, you can change it out. You may want to save the short stout leaders to use for streamer fishing.

Keep it simple...and have fun!

Happy Holidays to you too.

 

[jeff]

Yup a tightly casted line =drag=no fish!

 

[JackM]

less fish, but not no fish, imo.

 

[JackM]

When casting weight, I always think of my line as if a spring. The load of the weight of the rearward traveling fly and splitshot must be felt before the forward casting stroke. If you anticipate the point of reflex or wait too long, the cast will unfold improperly much more so than when casting a non-weighted rig. The forward stroke also should start out more slowly with a push before acceleration and the stop. All of these forward "movements" are less abrupt than when casting non-weighted flies. Larger loops-- short way of saying the above, I think. But keep in mind, I have no idea what I am talking about most of the time.

 

[troutbert]

Carry spools of tippet and use those to keep adjusting your leader, depending on what you are fishing. If you carry 3x, 4x, 5x and 6x, that will take care of most situations.

You can keep the butt section of the leader a long time. And just keep adjusting out at the end with your spools of tippet.

When fishing streamers, you want to cut back to lighter tippet than when fishing dry flies. I recommend using 3x for streamer fishing.

 

[afishinado]

JackM wrote:
When casting weight, I always think of my line as if a spring. The load of the weight of the rearward traveling fly and splitshot must be felt before the forward casting stroke. If you anticipate the point of reflex or wait too long, the cast will unfold improperly much more so than when casting a non-weighted rig. The forward stroke also should start out more slowly with a push before acceleration and the stop. All of these forward "movements" are less abrupt than when casting non-weighted flies. Larger loops-- short way of saying the above, I think. But keep in mind, I have no idea what I am talking about most of the time.

Think of it more like lobbing a hand-grenade vs. throwing a dart..

 

[jeff]

Some great advice here. You want slack in your line when you cast especially fishing sub service. Cast your line quartered up stream. Drift, try and keep as much of your line off the water as possible. Mend your line up stream if need be. Feel the tick,tick,tick of your fly hitting the bottom. In the winter you have to fish low and slow and look for deep water. Imagine a straight line from the tip of your rod down to the fly. If you can start do this you will start to catch fish. Without seeing you fish I can almost guarantee your issue is drag related. As I said earlier drag= no fish for most beginners imo of course! Of course even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then Jack

 

[Foxgap239]

You probably got enough advice (all good by the way) here to make your head spin so I'll add a bit more and you can do the exorcist routine even better.

Slower is better when casting weight. Let the rod load in the back and come forward slow and steady. That'll get your fly in the water but I'm the last perosn to get advice about catching!

 

[jrcll]

now, a tight line swinging a wet fly = fish lol

 

[JackM]

jeff wrote:
Of course even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then Jack

It is why I haven't yet given up on fly fishing. You have preached to the preacher.

 

[pete41]

If you are casting serious weight,such as weighted fly and a couple bb split shot,listen to Foxgap above.
If you don't let the loop straighten out and rush your forward cast you can build up so much line speed if can really hurt when those shot hit you in the back of the head.Seriously,trust me.lol
If you get into that kind of weight you want to go with a lob cast or better yet,pop on sinking line and short leader.

 

[afishinado]

Here is some info on the "belgian cast" which is used when casting a lot of weight:

http://midcurrent.com/techniques/the-belgian-cast/

 

[Chaz]

Generally you can use shorter ehavier tippet when fishing nymphs and streamers. And you want an open loop in the line so that when the fly comes around it goes down into the water and "dives." When you add weight you no longer want to make a delicate presentation. You don't want a big splash, but you want the fly to sink fast.

 

[pcray1231]

Yeah, what everyone else said, I won't answer your questions 1 by 1 because others already have, just making some comments.

Straightening out your leader is pretty and all. But the reality of it is, whether or not you are using weight, you want slack in your leader as it hits the water! The fly has to act like it's not connected to anything. Casters straighten out leaders and look pretty doing it. Fishermen find odd ways to get the proper amount of slack in their leaders, and they look like they're terrible casters, but they're the ones catching fish!

Too much slack, though, and you don't notice hits, get tangles, and other such junk.

Getting it right takes practice.

One trick I used when I was beginning (and still do now), is cast like you were taught, except aim for a spot 3 or 4 feet above the water where you want to cast. Straighten out the leader in mid-air, but don't drop the rod immediately, keep it up for the recoil. Here's where it changes depending on the weight you have on.

If you have no weight, the line will begin to recoil back towards you. Now you drop the rod tip. And the line and leader will fall to the water simultaneously. Sometimes the fly parachutes down a bit and hits the water last, thats ok. That split second of recoil gives you some slack to get you some drag free time. Getting the timing right takes a little practice.

If you are using a weighted fly, or shot, keep the rod tip up, you don't have to drop it. Instead of recoiling back towards you, the weight will tuck under and dive hard towards the water, with the fly entering the water first before the line. This is called a tuck cast. The fly enters almost vertically and goes straight down, it helps you get deep with less weight and sets you up for a proper drift.

As far as the weight question, don't be afraid to really load it up. If you are bottom dredging, and not snagging up every couple of casts, you have to either adjust your weight or your cast to compensate.