Frustrating

[Stagger_Lee]

Thought I was going to take Friday off and was planning to fish the LL. Ended up I had to meet someone in Philly in the afternoon so I canceled that out. Woke up early ystrday, I hadn’t been out for awhile so I decided to hit Valley in the am for a couple of hrs. Had been there once (for abt an hr) the day I couldn’t find pickering but it was an area in the park (not off VCreek Rd) and not in one of the access areas I have read on this board so it didnt count.

Impressions – I have never seen so many trout in my life. Just walking along the trails you could see them in groups of 5 – 10 and a lot of them (groups). For me it was somewhat educational because for the first time I really understood how easy it is to spook fish when you are not in the H2O and standing above them. When I first got there I was walking along the trail going downstream, stood over the creek to check it out and I saw 10 scatter (tho only abt 10 – 15 feet away) .. never realized how quick those lil guys are. As I continued I was very careful and saw a bunch of spots holding fish. Not sure if it gets a bad rap around here but I thought it was a pretty creek especially for this side of the state. Also, being someone who loves history and the Revolutionary period of our country, I hope to start fishing this creek often.

I get to as far downstream as I want and decide to work up until I get to the area where I parked. Tighter sections than I am used too but I felt a lil more comfort and used the roll cast a decent amt of time. Problem is, again, I caught nothing. I nymphed, used a zebra midge which was recommended, and terrestrials. I was extremely cautious in my approach from behind (fished upstream) and it was really cool seeing the fish hold and not spooking them (thanks DDog for that lil side step tip back in July), and I hit a few deep pools, but I didn’t even get a nibble! Starting to get a lil frustrated when it comes to fishing trout.

On a few occasions I’ve hit WW and just feel like anything I know isn’t working, I still catch fish and enjoy myself. Yesterday was a day that I felt comfortable on the water, thought my mechanics were OK (for me of course), actually new where I wanted to cast too and getting pretty darn close, but nothing. I would have been content if they took my fly and I lost’em trying to hook’em. I truly enjoy fishing WW but I need to figure out how to land some trout. I really enjoy being out on the water and this is getting frustrating.

 

[Volksnurse]

Yep. That sounds about right. Its a very "technical" stream and test your ability to be stealthy and read the water. Its also loaded with suckers,which are named after those of us that spend too much time and energy figuring out they're not trout.
Keep trying.

 

[pete41]

They can spot you before you can see them and they can pick up vibrations that you don't realize you are making.
If that had been a lightly fished stream you probably would have never known they were there.
One of the great ironies of our sport is the way people seem to think the heavily fished streams such as Henrys Fork,Armstong spring creek and others are so demanding when the fact is they get used to the traffic and allow careful waders to get much closer than on the streams which people claim are easier to fish,if they weren't fished out by poachers,baiters etc..

 

[pete41]

Ah,yes~the hours I spent over fallfish ,suckers in the East and whitefish in the West.lol

 

[Stagger_Lee]

Yep. That sounds about right. Its a very "technical" stream and test your ability to be stealthy and read the water. Its also loaded with suckers,which are named after those of us that spend too much time and energy figuring out they're not trout.
Keep trying.

LMFAO @ myself .. all those fish I saw were suckers not trout???

Say it ain't so JT

 

[Stagger_Lee]

pete wrote:

Ah,yes~the hours I spent over fallfish ,suckers in the East and whitefish in the West.lol

Seriously .. if those were the fish I was spending some of my time chucking flies at, I'm still frustrated but not as frustrated lol

 

[Fishidiot]

Stagger,
I'm guessing you saw mostly trout. Suckers tend to bunch up in slower, deeper spots. They'll spook too but often, when this happens, they just start swimming around in circles in the same spot. Spooked trout will usually bolt in a straight line to deeper water or to cover. It's less common to see white suckers in current or riffles - trout love to lay in these spots this time of year (you will see suckers spawning in fast water but that is in early spring). Also, suckers always lay on the bottom. Trout will often position themselves high in the water column, sometimes just inches under the surface. This is called, in FF lingo, a "station" and usually indicates a fish looking for food.

Kudos to you for a good, lesson learning day. Valley is a tough stream and often shows me the skunk.

 

[docsab]

Stagger_Lee wrote:

LMFAO @ myself .. all those fish I saw were suckers not trout???

Say it ain't so JT

LOL, Stag- I feel your pain. Last Sunday I spent about an hour throwing everything I had at what I thought was the Holy Grail of trout schools till JT informed me they were suckers.

Well, sometimes the anticipation is ALMOST as good as the fulfillment

 

[englishprof]

Stagger,

I can assure you that those fish were trout. The browns totally dominate that stream. I asked you to meet me there. I think I can help you a little. Guess you don't like my politics!!!!!

Volks.....I've only been fly fishing for about 44 years and still don't know what is meant by a "technical" stream. Help me, please.

 

[Fishidiot]

englishprof wrote:
I've only been fly fishing for about 44 years and still don't know what is meant by a "technical" stream. Help me, please.

I'm not sure the origin of this term but I don't think it was in common use in FF parlance until probably just the last ten or fifteen years(?). It also seems to me to have been originally associated with western spring creeks that were very clear and had selective fish. Henry's Fork is often described as "technical."
As far as I know, it's just lingo now for a trout stream that has selective fish, requires skill to fish effectively, and typically involves small flies.
Valley definitely fits the term.

 

[Chaz]

The trout use computers, that's technical!

 

[djs12354]

Chaz wrote:
The trout use computers, that's technical!

CHaz,

Say it ain't so! If the trout can get smarter by reading this forum, there ain't gonna be any dumb ones out there for me to catch!

 

[Volksnurse]

Fishidiot wrote:

englishprof wrote:
I've only been fly fishing for about 44 years and still don't know what is meant by a "technical" stream. Help me, please.

I'm not sure the origin of this term but I don't think it was in common use in FF parlance until probably just the last ten or fifteen years(?). It also seems to me to have been originally associated with western spring creeks that were very clear and had selective fish. Henry's Fork is often described as "technical."
As far as I know, it's just lingo now for a trout stream that has selective fish, requires skill to fish effectively, and typically involves small flies.
Valley definitely fits the term.

Clearer than I probably could have explained it. Thanks!

 

[Stagger_Lee]

english prof wrote:
Stagger,

I can assure you that those fish were trout. The browns totally dominate that stream. I asked you to meet me there. I think I can help you a little. Guess you don't like my politics!!!!!

Nah EP .. just an early AM decision and I split without giving it much thought. I have you in mind as I think you would be good in redistributing the fish! Going to try to hit it up once or twice in Sept and I'll give you a heads up.

So from what you and others have said, if the fish moved quickly when spooked, definitely trout? If so I thought it was cool being able to see so many in a stream .. first time I experienced that.

As I said there were a few instances as I walked up stream & I was wading approx 10 - 15 feet behind them and they didn't move. Got a few cast into position w/out spooking but the didn't take. At some point I would then throw out a bad cast, spook them a lil and they darted quickly. This was only the 2nd 'pure' trout stream I have been to (LL the other) and still think it was cool being able to actually see so many.

 

[Stagger_Lee]

doc wrote:

LOL, Stag- I feel your pain. Last Sunday I spent about an hour throwing everything I had at what I thought was the Holy Grail of trout schools till JT informed me they were suckers.

Well, sometimes the anticipation is ALMOST as good as the fulfillment

doc .. see my post above. I'm going with schools of trout as they darted quickly and FishIdiot wrote suckers a slower. His description here is exactly what I was experiencing

Spooked trout will usually bolt in a straight line to deeper water or to cover.

When these schools felt my presence they darted down stream. I remember getting confused at one of the newbie jams thinking the suckers where trout but they are slower, more lazy like imo

That said, I am going to have to hit it (VC) up with some of the experienced guys not to only help me out technically, but to make sure I am chucking my flies at the right fish.

 

[docsab]

Based on these descriptions I believe what I was seeing were suckers. It was a deeper pool, they were very skittish and would dart all over the place in a school when I moved. If I was still for a while they often settled down only a few feet from me- sometimes over a dozen fish with some of the larger ones looking to be a foot in length. They were not taking anything on top. I often was able to drift a nymph through the middle of the school, but generated zero interest.

 

[Stagger_Lee]

docsab wrote:

Based on these descriptions I believe what I was seeing were suckers. It was a deeper pool, they were very skittish and would dart all over the place in a school when I moved. If I was still for a while they often settled down only a few feet from me- sometimes over a dozen fish with some of the larger ones looking to be a foot in length. They were not taking anything on top. I often was able to drift a nymph through the middle of the school, but generated zero interest.

As my posts show, similar characteristics that i observed. Looks like we are 50/50 as some say suckers are slower and wouldn't dart. I'm going with trout because it makes me feel better

That said .. I look forward to heading out to VC with someone who has more knowledge then me to verify.

 

[pete41]

Trout that are use to being pounding will often just move a little further up.They learn from experience that bailing out will keep them from getting their fair share of the booty.
While I have never fished valley I have fished the so called toughies all over the country.
I also get a perverted pleasure out of watching others trying to catch the streamwise fish that just keep moving out of range.

 

[docsab]

Stagger_Lee wrote:
I'm going with trout because it makes me feel better

Heh, I couldn't catch em so I'll go with suckers for the same reason.

 

[paparise]

Fished it on sunday at sunrise before the rain. Took a few on a #14 black parachute ant. I saw a few jump clear out of the water, one was about 3' from me. Not for my fly but it was a cool sight to see.

I haven't fished it all summer but before it got too hot but was still a bit low and clear I found my self wading up to a lie on my knees. I did the same on sunday and feel like it helped keep me in the game. As soon as I was done and stood up I'd see the fish I was casting to relocate. I also had beter luck in the riffles although I had a quick take in a slow pool as soon as my ant hit the water.