Spring Mill Creek Conshohocken

[Mike]

Mike that 2021 survey does look promising. Was the reproduction problems you mentioned super recent like 2022? Could it be natural swings/variation of pops? Seems odd it would go from stud to dud in one year.

Apologies. I changed some of my comments based upon seeing this report for the first time. I stand corrected at least pertaining to (2021’s) overall abundance and biomass, which I did not comment upon. That’s impressive. Per Fish Sticks it will be interesting to see what happens with year class strength in the future. Could be natural variation at play, not only a sign of population decline. Have to wait and see.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Given the large barrier at the mouth, if the rest of this stream remains unstocked, and the presence of wild brook trout remain and no wild brown trout, does this mean they are allopatric?

Pcray? Swattie?

 

[Fish Sticks]

Sorry. Based upon this report I think I stand corrected, at least for 2021.
I wonder whether the info gleaned from a discussion I had was a matter of interpretation of the 2021 data by the reader, or was based on a 2022 survey.

Looking more closely at the 2021 report, however (a second review), I now see evidence of a possible year class failure and possibly a poor year class the previous year, depending upon growth rates. This may be what the individual was referring to, and in that case he may have had a point. As someone noted, that could just be natural variation, but if reproductive success was less than stellar two yrs in a row it will be interesting to see if there will be a rebound given that there still were adults in 2021.

Taking that dam out made a warm stagnant lake into a cold spring creek in that case I believe. I have often wondered if all the spring ponds cold enough for farmers to raise trout in could be success stories like Aquatong. Obviously there are more variables involved but many spring discharges near me have been damed up or impounded by mounds of soil.

 

[Mike]

Taking that dam out made a warm stagnant lake into a cold spring creek in that case I believe. I have often wondered if all the spring ponds cold enough for farmers to raise trout in could be success stories like Aquatong. Obviously there are more variables involved but many spring discharges near me have been damed up or impounded by mounds of soil.

You have a point to a degree, but Aquetong’s spring was much larger than average, giving it an advantage for potential downstream success following dam removal. One would have to look at ponds on a case by case basis…for one, by checking summer discharge volume at base flow.

 

[Fish Sticks]

You have a point to a degree, but Aquetong’s spring was mush larger than average, giving it an advantage for potential downstream success following dam removal. One would have to look at ponds on a case by case basis.

I figured it would vary. Did the stream the OP mentioned have ground water influence or was that a free stoner. I had not been familiar with it

 

[montcotrout]

So, montco, I did walk the unposted portions of the crick in question with my son a few years ago. It is very small but has some sexy looking water, a true spring creek vibe in spots, but we saw no fish on a warm May day. That is not to say that there may not be fish further upstream in commercial property and private backyards.

Also, am wondering where are they going to get fish to repopulate Northkill, if that is where they are still taking the SEPA transplants from. More playing god? Does it impact one increasingly marginal creek to serve another? That crick seems to be turning in brown trout water more and more every year

I noticed a lot a vegetation with bait fish darting in and out. Something relatively big (6-8 inches so nothing spectacular, but more than anything else I had seen). Maybe I'll take a chance with a dry dropper and hope I cast accurate enough to avoid spooking.

 

[Mike]

Mike that 2021 survey does look promising. Was the reproduction problems you mentioned super recent like 2022? Could it be natural swings/variation of pops? Seems odd it would go from stud to dud in one year.

Yes, could be. It’s now wait and see. It would be interesting to learn what the 2022 yr class or 2023 yr class was/is like and what freestone source fish geographically removed can do in a limestone stream.

 

[Mike]

I figured it would vary. Did the stream the OP mentioned have ground water influence or was that a free stoner. I had not been familiar with it

Limestone, as I recall. There’s a “belt” of it in the general area.

 

[Mike]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.soleburytwp.org/aquetong-spring-advisory-committee/files/2021-water-quality-report&ved=2ahUKEwjLtOqavpv-AhX4FlkFHX5vDCIQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2fbptRpj2iK2jmR3-_IIuI

The survey results from Oct 2021, released 2022 show the creek could be at Class A Status in the near future. I look forward to the survey assessment of habitat and restorations and to see what they will bring.

They stocked 50 brook trout in 2017 and captured 49 in Oct 2021. 3 or so are now over 10 inches.

This is a decent start! Really encouraging to see.

Yes, you have a point now that I have seen the report.

 

[silverfox]

Yes, could be. It’s now wait and see. It would be interesting to learn what the 2022 yr class or 2023 yr class was/is like and what freestone source fish geographically removed can do in a limestone stream.

I'm really curious about this too. Mostly with taking fish from a freestone stream with a relatively low pH and transplanting them into a limestone stream with high pH. I'm sure the habitat is similar enough, but would the chemistry cause them to try to leave?

 

[sixfootfenwick]

I'm really curious about this too. Mostly with taking fish from a freestone stream with a relatively low pH and transplanting them into a limestone stream with high pH. I'm sure the habitat is similar enough, but would the chemistry cause them to try to leave?

Well it's been since 2017, so Im going to suppose it didn't, at least for now.

It will be interesting to see what habitat improvements can do.

 

[wcosner2]

Well it's been since 2017, so Im going to suppose it didn't, at least for now.

It will be interesting to see what habitat improvements can do.

Honestly, I am surprised by the 2021 data. From my understanding, they transplanted 50 brookies from a stream after the dam removal but before they started doing the actual stream restoration work which is kind of wild. They were dewatering parts of the stream to work on it and the stream was totally open to any predators. Obviously, brookies are some resilient creatures and I hope they keep it up. I wish the stream that flows in less than a mile from the spring wasn't in such rough shape in terms of temperature but hopefully they can at least keep inhabiting the stretch above that. I have spent many an hour fishing that beautiful body of water and I hope it keeps improving.

 

[KeviR]

So as not to take over this thread with an off-topic conversation, I am starting a new thread specifically about Aquetong Creek. Please see my new post there. In the conservation forum.

 

[globug15]

Observed one 7-10" brown trout in the stream this evening. Walked along from the Schuylkill trail to the next road crossing. Plenty of minnow species and panfish also observed. If this was in the central part of the state it would be full of trout. Interesting to see nonetheless, and there must be a few other resident trout.

- John P.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

Observed one 7-10" brown trout in the stream this evening. Walked along from the Schuylkill trail to the next road crossing. Plenty of minnow species and panfish also observed. If this was in the central part of the state it would be full of trout. Interesting to see nonetheless, and there must be a few other resident trout.

- John P.

Cool! That is more than I observed. I would have expected that at least a stocker or two would seek thermal refuge up there, too. Nothing in some of those great pools between the river and the first home by the bridge and def a few stocked and formerly stocked cricks within a short swim.

If you saw one, I bet there are a couple more behind the high line/industrial property just upstream of the road you noted. There is also a retired quarry in Conshy that may feed the creek upstream but is at least in the belt Mike referenced. I live in the area and need to knock on doors one day....

 

[montcotrout]

Observed one 7-10" brown trout in the stream this evening. Walked along from the Schuylkill trail to the next road crossing. Plenty of minnow species and panfish also observed. If this was in the central part of the state it would be full of trout. Interesting to see nonetheless, and there must be a few other resident trout.

- John P.

Actually tried fishing it today. Saw a large sculpin but only caught a minnow. I couldn't really cast though with my 8ft 4 wt. I'll try again sometime. The weed beds looked promising as shelter.

 

[SmashedHackle]

Actually tried fishing it today. Saw a large sculpin but only caught a minnow. I couldn't really cast though with my 8ft 4 wt. I'll try again sometime. The weed beds looked promising as shelter.

I worked at the Mill from 2003 until 2015ish. I would walk down there all the time and look for trout. Sometimes I would see a few. Then I could go a long while without seeing any. I tried tossing rooster tails now and again. I would go over in my work clothing and come back muddy and covered in stickers. I would clean up the trash every once in a while. If you go down river there are a few more streams that hold trout. I suspect a lot of fish are stockers that move from Norristown (Stoney) and the Wissahickon too. In fact, one day I was down at the Waterworks in Philly fishing for stripers and i kept seeing fish taking bugs on top. I walked back got my fly rod and ended up landing several trout on Griffith Nats. They were definitely stockies, and probably became dinner for bass. It would be great to see fish restored to the creek in Conshy
It just always has this weird mud. Often from when the river backs up and floods the area. I also think that creek doesn't flow very far. Does anyone know where it rises (it must be just above the bridge).