Smallmouth

[NittanyBearcat]

I finally got out yesterday for my first smallmouth outing of the year after spending most of the spring chasing trout. I love all aspects of fly fishing and enjoy the technical aspects of nymphing or getting a drag free dry fly drift for trout. However, in my opinion nothing can beat tossing streamers for those aggressive smallies. Didn’t get into any real big fish but it was a blast all the same.

 

[Schaefer406]

I finally got out yesterday for my first smallmouth outing of the year after spending most of the spring chasing trout. I love all aspects of fly fishing and enjoy the technical aspects of nymphing or getting a drag free dry fly drift for trout. However, in my opinion nothing can beat tossing streamers for those aggressive smallies. Didn’t get into any real big fish but it was a blast all the same.

I find myself recently fishing for smallmouth with the exact same tactics I use for trout! I caught a solid 17" smallie yesterday using a mono rig (yes, one set up for tightline nymphing) and I just tied on 0X down to a sculpin and just dead drifted it through the current. They absolutely hammered it in the tail outs.

 

[pcray1231]

Call me ignorant. But an honest question. For the mono rig, euro nymphing crowd. What is the advantage over a noodle/jig outfit that people have been doing for 50+ years? I'm talking about the 10-15 ft, light rods, with a spinning rod attached. The people who invented the jighead (which used to be much smaller before the bass crowd started using them). They'd use small jigs, tipped with bait or artificials. Flip it up and bottom bounce it back down. It's deadly effective.

This isn't a cut. I used to do this myself. My grandfather did it when he was a kid. I had a shorter spinning rod I'd work minnies with and a long one for "jigging", which just meant dead drifting and bottom bouncing, the goal was drag free. It stayed popular especially in the great lakes regions for salmon/steelhead. I just look at the Euro nymph craze now and say, it's not new?

For me, a fly rod is about versatility. I can take 1 rod out of the car and do just about anything, I'm not confined to this one situation, one type of fishing.

 

[Schaefer406]

Call me ignorant. But an honest question. For the mono rig, euro nymphing crowd. What is the advantage over a noodle/jig outfit that people have been doing for 50+ years? I'm talking about the 10-15 ft, light rods, with a spinning rod attached. The people who invented the jighead (which used to be much smaller before the bass crowd started using them). They'd use small jigs, tipped with bait or artificials. Flip it up and bottom bounce it back down. It's deadly effective.

This isn't a cut. I used to do this myself. My grandfather did it when he was a kid. I had a shorter spinning rod I'd work minnies with and a long one for "jigging", which just meant dead drifting and bottom bouncing, the goal was drag free. It stayed popular especially in the great lakes regions for salmon/steelhead. I just look at the Euro nymph craze now and say, it's not new?

For me, a fly rod is about versatility. I can take 1 rod out of the car and do just about anything, I'm not confined to this one situation, one type of fishing.

You are completely right, it's not new and the jig outfit you are talking about is super deadly. I'm not a euro-nympher all of the time. The mono rig is great because I can literally use a single leader and tightline nymph, throw a dry fly, throw a streamer, throw and indicator rig, and then go to a smallmouth stream in the same day and use poppers, streamers, large nymphs, etc. with just variations to my tippet. Obviously, having multiple mono-rigs for fly/situation/species specific items will lead to better results, but like I just caught a 17" smallie out of the susquehanna on my trout rig. I don't really think there are many advantages other than the simplicity of transitioning from top water to jigging with just a tippet switch, it is just what I am comfortable with and what I know works.

I also like my fly rod rig because of the accuracy, super easy to weave between rocks. If you fish for smallmouth on the fly, what set up do you use? I love hearing what other people like using!

 

[pcray1231]

I'm just getting into smallie fishing with the fly rod. 10 ft 7 wt (my steelhead rod) and tossing streamers on a short, stout leader is what I've done.

Though when I take the yak I have been using spinning gear because I'm struggling to cast a fly rod from a sitting position. And the yak has been how I have done a fair bit of smallmouth fishing, it just adds so much to covering water in larger rivers like the Susquehanna, Juniata, or even Skuke. I can stand in the yak but not comfortably enough for the pull of a backcast. I am hoping to learn to fly fish from the yak this summer. But generally on the spinning rod using either spinners, or curly tails/rubber stickbaits on jigheads.

Surprised you can throw a dry fly effectively on the mono rig? Interested. For me, the ability to switch from nymphs to a dry in the evening. Or fish dry droppers to hit that 4" deep riffle from 40 ft. Or fish small mountain streams around brush. Those are why I use the fly rig.

 

[Schaefer406]

Same

I'm just getting into smallie fishing with the fly rod. 10 ft 7 wt (my steelhead rod) and tossing streamers on a short, stout leader is what I've done.

Though when I take the yak I have been using spinning gear because I'm struggling to cast a fly rod from a sitting position. I can stand in the yak but not comfortably enough for the pull of a backcast. I am hoping to learn to fly fish from the yak this summer. But generally on the spinning rod using either spinners, or curly tails/rubber stickbaits on jigheads.

Same here! I’m just starting out this spring, but I have gone last year a bit but I’m really hitting it hard this year wading the Susquehanna and tribs. I did just buy a kayak though, and I’ve heard the general consensus is to paddle out to islands and rocky areas, park the yak, and then wet wade around and you’ll have success. Any recommendations for a spinning rod? I’ve been looking to try one out, as I’ve strictly only FF’ed… I’ve heard a 7’ medium to medium light spinning rod works great, but what line, reel, etc. do you recommend?

 

[pcray1231]

I generally like 4 lb for trout and 8 lb test for smallies. But in the interest of outfitting just 1 spinning rod, lol, I go with 6 lb test usually. Note that the biggest thing with spinning rods is the line. The big box trilene's and such suck, too stiff, they cast like crap. They're all going for abrasion resistance and low stretch, which is what the largemouth bass guys in lakes want to flip lures around logs and through weeds and yank fish away from cover. I want thin, low memory, and supple, which is pretty much the opposite.

The "smooth casting" versions of the big brands are okish. I have a bulk spool of Silver Thread AN40 that I'm still using and love. It's nice and supple, no memory.

Tossing lures with a spinning rod, you do not need a long rod. For reel, I'm not that into it to know. I'm looking for a bail spring that won't break on me, lol. I generally go mid-priced.

In pools, moderate current, I'll anchor up and fish from the yak, or even just cast around as I'm drifting. In riffs/islandy areas, I'll park and get out and wade. Yes, rocky is good, as is current. A yak is a great way to cover water. The disadvantage is needing 2 vehicles that carry yaks if you are gonna do rivers. Have one stashed at the take-out, drive upstream a few miles and put in.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

For reel, I'm not that into it to know. I'm looking for a bail spring that won't break on me, lol. I generally go mid-priced.

Pflueger president reel

 

[JerryC]

I also like my fly rod rig because of the accuracy, super easy to weave between rocks. If you fish for smallmouth on the fly, what set up do you use? I love hearing what other people like using!

Generally, I use a 9' 6 wgt. I use a heavy duty thread furled leader specifically made for me to toss bass bugs for smallmouth and largemouth. I'm basically a dry fly snob, so most of my bass fishing is top water. The furled leader is 4' long. My leader is 5' to 7' long. Since my bass flies are tied on hooks from size 6 to 3/0 for my frog and crayfish patterns, I use a heavier tippet than most folks use, either 20 or 25# fluorocarbon. I also use flies tied on 1/32 to 1/16 oz jigs. The leader-tippet combination turns over all the flies I fish. The heavier tippet doesn't seem to bother the bass.
I use a floating line, from the surface down to about 8 feet. I have two spare spools for my reel. An intermediate line on one, which I'll use in 10 to 15 feet of water. I mainly fish bait fish patterns, streamers, jigs and crayfish patterns with it. I use a bass bug furled fluorocarbon leader with no more than 6 feet of tippet. The other spool has a sink tip line on it. I would use it if the smallies are 15 feet or deeper, but at that point it's more enjoyable to fish with a spinning rod. When I fish it I just use a straight of fluorocarbon, 6 feet long.
Since I took up fly fishing, my spinning tackle doesn't get much use. I have 3 rods I might use. Two old style Ugly Sticks, one is a 5' 6" light action, the other one, which I picked up at flea market for $15 and rebuilt over the winter replacing guides, grips and reel seat is 5' 10" light-medium action. The third is a 5' 10" fiberglass South Bend rod again rebuilt over the winter, new guides, reel seat and grips. Medium action.
Can't really help you with the reel. My newest one is about 5 years old, a Bass Pro Johnny Morris signature series. The other two are at least 10 to 15 years old. One is a Cabela's Pro Guide 3 and the other is a Penn 440 SS. They all came with a second spool. I have 10# fluorocarbon on all the spools and 10# braid on the Cabela's and Penn spare spools. I think 15# braid on the Bass Pro spare spool
The only time I've been in a kayak was at a Heroes on the Water event. It was a learning, experience for me and I found I could set up kayak and paddle around without much problem, but I wasn't going to try fly fishing from one my first time out. The guys, who were teaching the newbies, kayaks were rigged for fishing, and none of them had rod longer than 6 feet either bait casting or spinning.

 

[pcray1231]

When yakking long rods run into brush issues. I mean when not fishing. Often you want to lay down the rod along the kayak, not upright in the holder to avoid overhead branches you are floating under. And you don't want the rod tip beyond the nose as you might ram stuff, lol.

Jerry, paddling is easy. The trick is the moment you set down the paddle, by the time you pick up the rod, you're facing the wrong way. SOAB! lol. That, and most of the time the spot I want to fish is in current. By the time I recognize it as a spot I want to fish, I'm past it.

 

[poopdeck]

You are completely right, it's not new and the jig outfit you are talking about is super deadly. I'm not a euro-nympher all of the time. The mono rig is great because I can literally use a single leader and tightline nymph, throw a dry fly, throw a streamer, throw and indicator rig, and then go to a smallmouth stream in the same day and use poppers, streamers, large nymphs, etc. with just variations to my tippet. Obviously, having multiple mono-rigs for fly/situation/species specific items will lead to better results, but like I just caught a 17" smallie out of the susquehanna on my trout rig. I don't really think there are many advantages other than the simplicity of transitioning from top water to jigging with just a tippet switch, it is just what I am comfortable with and what I know works.

I also like my fly rod rig because of the accuracy, super easy to weave between rocks. If you fish for smallmouth on the fly, what set up do you use? I love hearing what other people like using!

I use 8 wt. One with a floating line and the other with a shooting head. I like the shooting head because it’s like fishing with a spinning rod. The floating line because it’s hard to fish poppers and gurglers on a shooting head.

Same

Same here! I’m just starting out this spring, but I have gone last year a bit but I’m really hitting it hard this year wading the Susquehanna and tribs. I did just buy a kayak though, and I’ve heard the general consensus is to paddle out to islands and rocky areas, park the yak, and then wet wade around and you’ll have success. Any recommendations for a spinning rod? I’ve been looking to try one out, as I’ve strictly only FF’ed… I’ve heard a 7’ medium to medium light spinning rod works great, but what line, reel, etc. do you recommend?

6’6” to 7’ med light any model St. Croix. 10 lb braid with 6 or 8lb mono leader Depending on water clarity. Any reel will do. I like the 2500 size. A Pflueger president is a great reel at a fantastic price. Brown, green or otherwise natural color 3” tubes and rapala shadow raps will do you just fine.

 

[afishinado]

When yakking long rods run into brush issues. I mean when not fishing. Often you want to lay down the rod along the kayak, not upright in the holder to avoid overhead branches you are floating under. And you don't want the rod tip beyond the nose as you might ram stuff, lol.

Jerry, paddling is easy. The trick is the moment you set down the paddle, by the time you pick up the rod, you're facing the wrong way. SOAB! lol. That, and most of the time the spot I want to fish is in current. By the time I recognize it as a spot I want to fish, I'm past it.

I have a Hobie Compass pedal kayak and it's da bomb for river smallie fishing. I can pedal forward or reverse and fish hands-free. I can "back-row" in reverse while drifting down the river to focus on key spots. Last year I added an electric motor (Texas Power Paddle) and which really adds to my versatility and range. I launch, fish both up and down river and return to the same launch area at the end of the day. I can now fish alone worrying about shuttles or multiple vehicles. As mentioned above I often beach the kayak in a good looking spot and wet-wade the section away from the crowds. Fun times!!

 

[pcray1231]

afish, that's a heck of a setup. Was looking at something like that myself but had some concerns.

1. Can you cartop it? A trailer isn't an option for me, no place to store it. I need to put 2 boats on a subaru, so J-hooks not cradles, and be light enough I can get it up there myself. My 64 lb Jackson is do-able but pushing it. That said it's probably more about where the handles are than pure weight. My girls/kids 40 lb Pelican is easy peasy.

2. How does it handle shallows? I do a lot of like 5-10 mile float trips down "smaller" waters like the Swatara, Skuke (Schuylkill Haven area), Penns, etc, in addition to the big water. Even did Spring Creek once through the canyon, and been wanting to do the Little J. Penns is a fantastic float from Coburn to Cherry Run. Not just about the fishing, usually with someone who wants to see river. A whole lotta scraping going on. It drafts in about 2" of water and I still have to get out and drag it a couple of times per trip. So I can't do a motor, but I was leery of rudders, flaps, and the like under the boat, trying to keep that shallow draft.

I have done places in the skuke, Big J, and Susquehanna on my own where I stay in one pool. Paddle to the top, drift down, paddle back up. But it requires a slow pool and fairly still water, and you're fishing the same water over and over again.

 

[afishinado]

afish, that's a heck of a setup. Was looking at something like that myself but had some concerns.

1. Can you cartop it? A trailer isn't an option for me, no place to store it. I need to put 2 boats on a subaru, so J-hooks not cradles, and be light enough I can get it up there myself. My 64 lb Jackson is do-able but pushing it. That said it's probably more about where the handles are than pure weight. My girls/kids 40 lb Pelican is easy peasy.

2. How does it handle shallows? I do a lot of like 5-10 mile float trips down "smaller" waters like the Swatara, Skuke (Schuylkill Haven area), Penns, etc, in addition to the big water. Even did Spring Creek once through the canyon, and been wanting to do the Little J. Penns is a fantastic float from Coburn to Cherry Run. Not just about the fishing, usually with someone who wants to see river. A whole lotta scraping going on. It drafts in about 2" of water and I still have to get out and drag it a couple of times per trip. So I can't do a motor, but I was leery of rudders, flaps, and the like under the boat, trying to keep that shallow draft.

I have done places in the skuke, Big J, and Susquehanna on my own where I stay in one pool. Paddle to the top, drift down, paddle back up. But it requires a slow pool and fairly still water, and you're fishing the same water over and over again.

Hey Pat,

My Hobie Compass is 12' long and 65lbs unrigged (W/O seat or drive). I easily load it in the back of my pick-up, but it's certainly light enough to car-top.

I fish the Susky, Juniata and the Delaware rivers along with a bunch of lakes. I have no problem in shallow water. You can actually pedal (flutter kick) with the fins close to the hull. To drift through shallow water the fins can retract against the hull. Also there is a kick-up feature that kicks up the fins if you hit an obstruction and redeploy when in deeper water. I manage it in the shallows all the time without any issues.. You also have the option to take out the drive (easy to do) and paddle through or pull through a shallow section of river. The Compass paddles pretty well when needed and it's super-stable on the water.

The "180 Drive" goes in reverse which is great for slowing down your drift or maneuvering in tight spaces. I really enjoy fishing from it and would recommend getting one for both bigger river and lake fishing.

The "Outback" model is a little bigger and heavier and the "Pro Anglers" are bigger and heavier yet; so they are more for trailing. The Compass is a mid-sized kayak. The "Passport" is a little lighter but uses a different process for manufacturing. The "Passport" comes in the 10.5' and 12' version. The "Lynx' is a super lightweight kayak, which is brand new. For me the "Compass" is the best size, weight and features of the entire Hobie line. The cockpit is clean for FFing without a lot of things to wrap up your fly line.

Here is the Hobie site for you to check out all the models they offer >

https://www.hobie.com/kayaks/

Go kayaking or go home!!

 

[pcray1231]

Thanks. Probably be a while, but at some point I'd like a pedal kayak. Hobies are pricy but very nice, and when I was in the market all the Hobies I saw were 100 lbs plus. Heck, a lot of fishing kayaks were getting kinda barge like. I didn't really get that. If you gotta trailer the dang thing and need more than a foot of water, not sure what you're getting over a boat, lol. The very advantage of a yak is you don't need a trailer or truck or boat ramp, throw it on top and put in wherever you want, portage around dams, and who gives a crap if you're scraping down the riffs. Happy to see lighter Hobies out there.

If i did that, I'd probably still use the jackson on smaller waters, it's got a little whitewater DNA with the high bow and heavy rocker and such. And the Hobie would be for bigger waters.

I gotta say, I'm impressed with the Pelican. I bought it for the kids and my gf uses it too. Just a cheap, 10 ft $200 Dicks deal. The seat kinda sucks and no underdeck storage, everything goes on top. But it's light, easy to throw around, I can shoulder it and walk it to the stream, paddles well, and takes some abuse. I'm not going to go yak camping in the thing, but when I just get out for an hour or two after work on my own, I often choose the $200 yak over the $1300 one!!! Portability is a HUGE factor, especially on small outings. The Pelicans are thermoformed like the lightest Hobie in your link. That style of construction is significantly lighter than roto-forming. Supposedly less durable, but I dunno. The difference between 40 and 60 lbs when you are carrying cannot be understated. Getting the 60 lb jackson on the car is a slide up, tricky process. The 40 lb Pelican I lift over my head and put on from the side!! When I take it off, I lift it straight up and literally throw it. It bounces once or twice. I abuse it and it's been rock solid, hardly even scratches. Takes on a touch of water due to the seam, if you're on the water all day it does need drained once, but it's so light you just stand it on end like nothing and open the plug.

 

[NittanyBearcat]

Back out after the smallies today. They love the Clouser minnows.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I’m getting into fishing for small mouth as well, went out for white fly hatch last year and loved it. Threw size 8 white conparadunn tied with glow in the dark synthetic fibers in the wing on the susky.

 

[TPrettyman]

I generally like 4 lb for trout and 8 lb test for smallies. But in the interest of outfitting just 1 spinning rod, lol, I go with 6 lb test usually. Note that the biggest thing with spinning rods is the line. The big box trilene's and such suck, too stiff, they cast like crap. They're all going for abrasion resistance and low stretch, which is what the largemouth bass guys in lakes want to flip lures around logs and through weeds and yank fish away from cover. I want thin, low memory, and supple, which is pretty much the opposite.

The "smooth casting" versions of the big brands are okish. I have a bulk spool of Silver Thread AN40 that I'm still using and love. It's nice and supple, no memory.

Tossing lures with a spinning rod, you do not need a long rod. For reel, I'm not that into it to know. I'm looking for a bail spring that won't break on me, lol. I generally go mid-priced.

In pools, moderate current, I'll anchor up and fish from the yak, or even just cast around as I'm drifting. In riffs/islandy areas, I'll park and get out and wade. Yes, rocky is good, as is current. A yak is a great way to cover water. The disadvantage is needing 2 vehicles that carry yaks if you are gonna do rivers. Have one stashed at the take-out, drive upstream a few miles and put in.

+1 for anything but trilene.

I exclusively use Yozuri for all my leaders, including fly fishing leaders.