Selective trout?

[tomitrout]

At our last TU meeting, the guest speaker's presentation was all about selective trout. I thought it was a very good presentation, lots and lots of info and anecdotes and history were shared, it was really good.

There was talk about matching the color of the fly, the size of the fly, properly representing the wings, getting the proportions just right, even some concern about a properly segmented bodys, thoraxes, etc, etc. Which is all good and part of the game, if that's how you choose to play it.

But there's one thing I've never wrapped my head around. We sometimes go through all this trouble to make the fly oh so right to fool these instinctive, pea brained predators....but how do we explain the fact that these oh so smart and selective trouts will continue to eat our flies when there's an obvious not-anatomically correct metal apendage sticking out of the flies arse, along with a really, really long rope like antenna sticking out of its head?

If trouts are so selective as to discern muted shades of color, or refuse our flies because of improper body proportions, then why do they bother eating them at all when there's a freaking obvious hook there, or the easily seen tippet???

 

[wildtrout2]

Great question, but you're probably "raining on someone's parade" right about now. lol

 

[JackM]

I don't get too caught up in it because I am pretty sure this whole fly fishing thing is a passing fad. That is, it will never catch on.

 

[mike_richardson]

The true judge of a fly is the trout to be honest.

Proportions, wings, colors are like Obama's promises; they are meant to be broken, and manipulated into what you want them to be 😉 .

That being said, I am really working on getting traditional proportions down this year, just as a tying goal. I don't really feel it makes or breaks the flies ability to catch fish.

I feel it is more important to present the fly correctly, than it is to perfectly match the hatch.

Size of the fly IMO is the most important factor.

 

[BrookieChaser]

You raise an interesting question. I can't answer it because I'm not a trout.

My theory is trout key in on certain aspects. Most likely the distortion on the surface film, as well as certain movement (prey dependent). All this is exaggerated when the fish has all day to look at a fly (slow moving limestone streams).

As for the hook, it's most likely overlooked or not even noticed. Did you ever meet that hot girl, so hot that you overlook the fact she's bat crap crazy?

 

[PatrickC]

BrookieChaser wrote: Did you ever meet that hot girl, so hot that you overlook the fact she's bat crap crazy?

Married her. :-D Luckily, I'm just as nutz...

 

[McSneek]

BrookieChaser wrote:
Did you ever meet that hot girl, so hot that you overlook the fact she's bat crap crazy?

All too often when I was a teenager many years ago.

If you ever get the chance to watch Ozzie Ozefovich's underwater videos you'll see trout "eating" all sorts of stuff that is passing them in the current. Some gets ingested, some gets spit out. I suspect the fish really doesn't have that much time to decide and "eats" whatever it is as long as it's drifting naturally. I guess in slower current they have longer to inspect things. Maybe that's why I like nymphing fast water. 🙂

 

[McSneek]

tomitrout wrote:
There was talk about matching the color of the fly, the size of the fly, properly representing the wings, getting the proportions just right, even some concern about a properly segmented bodys, thoraxes, etc, etc. Which is all good and part of the game, if that's how you choose to play it.

Or just try an Adams or even look for a less selective fish.

 

[PatrickC]

McSneek wrote:

If you ever get the chance to watch Ozzie Ozefovich's underwater videos you'll see trout "eating" all sorts of stuff that is passing them in the current. Some gets ingested, some gets spit out. I suspect the fish really doesn't have that much time to decide and "eats" whatever it is as long as it's drifting naturally. I guess in slower current they have longer to inspect things. Maybe that's why I like nymphing fast water. 🙂

It's the main theory behind why a large brown trout will attack a large articulated streamer that you are stripping down stream as well. Put them under duress to make a decision. If it looks like a meal they will probably hit it, especially a big meal (lots of calories for minimal effort). Stained and fast water both enhance your catch opportunity in these situations.

 

[pcray1231]

My theory is trout key in on certain aspects.

Yep, 90% of the time it's presentation, though fly construction absolutely plays into that (how it lays on the water, etc.).

The other 10%, I think it's probably something pretty minor that they key. For instance, I've never thought that color mattered very much. If you're close, your fine. I also never thought that having proper proportions mattered very often, except as to get it to ACT like a natural (which sometimes requires improper proportions intentionally!). But physical size seems to matter a lot. Flash seems to matter, though sometimes can be a turn-on or a turn-off depending on the situation. And presence of physical features can matter. For instance legs on a stonefly, or a wingcase on a nymph, or a proper wing on a dry....

 

[McSneek]

maybe I'm getting too far off the term "selective trout" but I've become moar and moar of a believer in hot spots on nymphs. Pheasant tails or similar nymphs with a chartreuse head for instance or a prince nymph with a pink dubbing collar. Another thing that comes to mind are rubber legs on stoneflies.

 

[sarce]

BrookieChaser wrote: As for the hook, it's most likely overlooked or not even noticed. Did you ever meet that hot girl, so hot that you overlook the fact she's bat crap crazy?

FYI, I'm using this analogy next time I am explaining fly tying to someone :lol:

It's just way too true.

 

[Fishidiot]

BrookieChaser wrote:
Did you ever meet that hot girl, so hot that you overlook the fact she's bat crap crazy?

Yep.
I aim to tie flies that are that hot. :-D

 

[GenCon]

For me I do not get caught up in all of that. Right shade, right this, right that. I tie many different types of patterns. Old styles, new styles and some of my own styles. The fact is, I tie my flies the way I want them to look and they seem to work just fine. I agree with comments above. It's mostly about presentation and confidence.
Get the color and size close and it's all good. I have caught tons of trout in my years during sulphur hatches. The only size I ever tie them is 16. I know full well many of these flies are not 16's but the fish don't seem to mind. Just don't tell them on me. I would be doomed.

GenCon

 

[troutbert]

Trout aren't selective.

Just match size, shape, and color and you'll be fine.

🙂

 

[RCFetter]

troutbert wrote:
Trout aren't selective.

Just match size, shape, and color and you'll be fine.

🙂

That's what I've always heard and in order of importance:

Size - Shape - Color.

Trout don't buy flies, people do and it's only human nature to buy the more realistic looking fly.

 

[BrookieChaser]

sarce wrote:

BrookieChaser wrote: As for the hook, it's most likely overlooked or not even noticed. Did you ever meet that hot girl, so hot that you overlook the fact she's bat crap crazy?

FYI, I'm using this analogy next time I am explaining fly tying to someone :lol:

It's just way too true.

Haha!

Use the analogy all you want.

 

[PelletHead1]

BrookieChaser wrote:
As for the hook, it's most likely overlooked or not even noticed. Did you ever meet that hot girl, so hot that you overlook the fact she's bat crap crazy?

i see what you did there.....

This may or may not explain why those cigarette-butt flies krayfish was talking about are so effective on wild brook trout.

 

[rrt]

Unlike some of you, I believe trout become selective. I am a dedicated user of the venerable Adams on mtn. streams for unpressured brook trout. I really like that kind of dry-fly fishing.

I believe, however, the trout that have been caught and released a few times, let's say on Sulphurs, become more picky about the artificial(s) they'll take during a hatch. For instance, I have had to change from a dun to a spinner pattern numerous times to take advantage of the trout's selectivity to the silhouette of spinners on the water. I believe the downwing silhouette for caddisflies becomes important after a trout has been deceived a time or two. Bill Anderson, president of the LJRA, has designed a series of flies to take selective trout on that highly pressured stream.

I tend to use flies a size larger than the real ones, and this practice is all right until trout have been c/r a couple of times. Then I know I need to have the correct size.

I would guess color is the least important of size, shape, and color. Having said that, I carry a couple of colors of Sulphurs. Most of the time, it does not make any difference which color I tie on; however, I have switched from one to another color on occasion and have had the color change make a difference.

In the fascinating book "The Ways of Trout," Englishmen Goddard and Clarke had a chapter entitled "The Hundredth Trout." This trout is the selective one of a hundred that truly challenges you. They designed flies specifically to take these selective trout.

Can I explain why the hook's protrusion makes little difference most of the time? Nope. But, Goddard and Clarke tied flies with the hook points upward to fool trout that appeared to notice the hook protruding in the water.

I think one of the fascinations of fly-fishing is matching hatches, and one of the most satisfying accomplishments is taking a difficult trout on a dry fly.

Sorry so long.

 

[geebee]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but a trouts brain is not capable of memory, it's not complex enough or wired that way.

Trout make two choices only - food or not food.

Which means simply they look for some trigger which appeals as food.

Food does not drag, for example.

I think it's possible that at certain times shape, depth ( or lack of) size and colour all trigger the 'food' instinct.

I think presentation is then the most important.

Otherwise, why do swung wets work and streamers during a hatch ?

They don't act like 'not food' is the answer.

Selective trout, is another way of saying wary trout - lack of water depth or broken water, or animal presence (us) means the range of 'not food' widens.

Davy Wottons - trout myths . Worth reading IMHO.