PFBC Strategic Trout Fishing Plan 2025-2029

[afishinado]

https://www.fishandboat.com/Conservation/Plans/Management-Plans/Documents/troutplan2025_draft.pdf

"...the public is encouraged to provide feedback from October 4 through November 2, 2024. Feedback on the plan may be submitted by email with 'Trout Plan' indicated in the subject line. The plan will be finalized during December 2024 following consideration of public feedback."

 

[Cznymph]

One would think with the amount of technology available today, that there would be a much more user friendly way to submit comments to the PFBC.

 

[tpn]

thanks for this

 

[JimKennedy]

One would think with the amount of technology available today, that there would be a much more user friendly way to submit comments to the PFBC.

If the Pennsylvania process is anything like Maryland's, they need to have a reply method that is pretty much available to anyone and use that. In the old days, it was easy because everyone used postal mail.

Once they have all the comments, a group of people has to go through each one, categorize it, determine whether it is something that can be done, whether it should be done and then either update the draft accordingly or document why the change will not be made.

While many suggestions will not be included and a reason will be cited, there are plenty of times when someone comes up with a good idea no one in the planning process thought of, resulting in changes.

Bottom line with the submission process, at least in Maryland, everyone needs to receive the same notice and everyone needs to submit through the same channel (email, postal mail) in the interest of fairness.

Also, there's the problem that some forums allow submission of massive amounts of comments from a single person in a way that makes it seem like there's a groundswell of support for something when it's really just a computer savvy troll looking to tip the scales in his or her favor.

 

[Cznymph]

If the Pennsylvania process is anything like Maryland's, they need to have a reply method that is pretty much available to anyone and use that. In the old days, it was easy because everyone used postal mail.

Once they have all the comments, a group of people has to go through each one, categorize it, determine whether it is something that can be done, whether it should be done and then either update the draft accordingly or document why the change will not be made.

While many suggestions will not be included and a reason will be cited, there are plenty of times when someone comes up with a good idea no one in the planning process thought of, resulting in changes.

Bottom line with the submission process, at least in Maryland, everyone needs to receive the same notice and everyone needs to submit through the same channel (email, postal mail) in the interest of fairness.

Also, there's the problem that some forums allow submission of massive amounts of comments from a single person in a way that makes it seem like there's a groundswell of support for something when it's really just a computer savvy troll looking to tip the scales in his or her favor.

There really isn’t any reason they can’t place a hyperlink that opens a page where you can directly enter your submission.

 

[BoulderWorks]

https://www.pa.gov/content/dam/copapwp-pagov/en/fishandboat/documents/about-us/agencyoverview/species-mgmt-plans/troutplan2025_draft.pdf

 

[Kgregor12]

There really isn’t any reason they can’t place a hyperlink that opens a page where you can directly enter your submission.

Lol they don’t want submissions

 

[Cznymph]

Lol they don’t want submissions

That’s exactly the reason. They make it very difficult to voice our opinions on matters and contact our appointed commissioners.

 

[Kgregor12]

That’s exactly the reason. They make it very difficult to voice our opinions on matters and contact our appointed commissioners.

Lol I am still waiting on a call back from an AFM from 2021

 

[troutbert]

This is what I found in the document regarding brook trout

"Objective 1.5: Evaluate the use of regulations to increase protection and conservation of wild Brook Trout. Water quality, habitat degradation, and climate change effects continue to be the primary threats to wild Brook Trout; however, there may be certain streams or watersheds where Brook Trout-specific regulations are warranted to ensure adequate protection and conservation is afforded to Pennsylvania’s only native streamdwelling salmonid. Strategy 1: Assess the use of regulations on specific streams or watersheds to provide wild Brook Trout populations additional protection."

There is no mention of the fact that there is widespread stocking over native brook trout populations by both the PFBC and coop hatcheries. And nothing about shifting hatchery trout away from brook trout streams.

 

[Kgregor12]

This is what I found in the document regarding brook trout

"Objective 1.5: Evaluate the use of regulations to increase protection and conservation of wild Brook Trout. Water quality, habitat degradation, and climate change effects continue to be the primary threats to wild Brook Trout; however, there may be certain streams or watersheds where Brook Trout-specific regulations are warranted to ensure adequate protection and conservation is afforded to Pennsylvania’s only native streamdwelling salmonid. Strategy 1: Assess the use of regulations on specific streams or watersheds to provide wild Brook Trout populations additional protection."

There is no mention of the fact that there is widespread stocking over native brook trout populations by both the PFBC and coop hatcheries. And nothing about shifting hatchery trout away from brook trout streams.

Yea I commented about that when I wrote in as well as the fact that they are delinquent and never completed Item 10-2 from the last trout management plan. 10-2 is a sore spot for PFBC given what you just mentioned about the effects of stocking.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

"Objective 1.5: Evaluate the use of regulations to increase protection and conservation of wild Brook Trout. Water quality, habitat degradation, and climate change effects continue to be the primary threats to wild Brook Trout; however, there may be certain streams or watersheds where Brook Trout-specific regulations are warranted to ensure adequate protection and conservation is afforded to Pennsylvania’s only native streamdwelling salmonid. Strategy 1: Assess the use of regulations on specific streams or watersheds to provide wild Brook Trout populations additional protection."

ROFL

 

[Kgregor12]

"Objective 1.5: Evaluate the use of regulations to increase protection and conservation of wild Brook Trout. Water quality, habitat degradation, and climate change effects continue to be the primary threats to wild Brook Trout; however, there may be certain streams or watersheds where Brook Trout-specific regulations are warranted to ensure adequate protection and conservation is afforded to Pennsylvania’s only native streamdwelling salmonid. Strategy 1: Assess the use of regulations on specific streams or watersheds to provide wild Brook Trout populations additional protection."

ROFL

These TMP PDF’s they put out are worthless IMO……..

Exhibit A pictured below.


Item 10-strategy 2 in the 2019-2024 TMP was never even completed and currently stands delinquent because the displacement was so great in the face of PFBC’s stocking/current trout species management that they probably don’t want to report it.

Also I was told the surveying capability is severely limited because the commission is so stretched financially from hatcheries that the biologists can’t effectively complete their actual non-hatchery fisheries management objectives. They just keep getting pulled for the trout hatchery program scut work and several are pretty disgruntled about it apparently. Wco job satisfaction whole other subject 😂

Troutbert, I have confidence that the commission will not make good on the TMP item you mentioned either. I think when I went back and counted one time close to 3/4 of their past TMP goals for brookies were never met/pursued so historically I can objectively point to that as my reasoning. I agree with you about the important omissions.

 

[vcregular]

No mention of tailwater management for coldwater species anywhere. I guess I should not be surprised.

 

[Cznymph]

"Objective 1.5: Evaluate the use of regulations to increase protection and conservation of wild Brook Trout. Water quality, habitat degradation, and climate change effects continue to be the primary threats to wild Brook Trout; however, there may be certain streams or watersheds where Brook Trout-specific regulations are warranted to ensure adequate protection and conservation is afforded to Pennsylvania’s only native streamdwelling salmonid. Strategy 1: Assess the use of regulations on specific streams or watersheds to provide wild Brook Trout populations additional protection."

ROFL

This reminds me of myself when I was in high school and didn’t have a high enough word count for a report. Just add in a bunch of big words and filler, without really saying anything!

 

[Kgregor12]

This reminds me of myself when I was in high school and didn’t have a high enough word count for a report. Just add in a bunch of big words and filler, without really saying anything!

Lol I love how while they take comment for this next TMP PDF with likely no action behind it to come for brook trout Commissioner William Brock(potter county area) has been fighting to re-open all class A’s to examination for stocking exceptions.

Perception vs. reality i guess

 

[Brown71]

While I completely understand everything isn’t perfect, and people have valid complaints, don’t forget to appreciate what we do have here in PA. The trout fishing is top notch overall, especially for size and miles of quality waters.

 

[Kgregor12]

While I completely understand everything isn’t perfect, and people have valid complaints, don’t forget to appreciate what we do have here in PA. The trout fishing is top notch overall, especially for size and miles of quality waters.

Oh yea fishing is amazing no doubt I was talking about conservation being objectively **** poor.

 

[JimKennedy]

There really isn’t any reason they can’t place a hyperlink that opens a page where you can directly enter your submission.

The link in the notification message literally opens an email with the correct address. All anyone needs to do to submit a comment is write a few sentences in the email and hit send.

Again, and I have a bit of first hand experience with this, the email submission process makes it much more difficult for a troll to flood the agency with dozens, hundreds or even thousands of comments that appear to be from different people to create the illusion that there is a groundswell of support for something that has very limited support.

Because it’s designed to look like grassroots support for the idea, but isn’t really grassroots, it’s sometimes called astroturfing.

I dare say any of us who are able to kvetch and carp in this forum is able to muster the technical savvy needed to send a lucid message that may well be incorporated into the policy that ends up on the books.

 

[Cznymph]

The link in the notification message literally opens an email with the correct address. All anyone needs to do to submit a comment is write a few sentences in the email and hit send.

Again, and I have a bit of first hand experience with this, the email submission process makes it much more difficult for a troll to flood the agency with dozens, hundreds or even thousands of comments that appear to be from different people to create the illusion that there is a groundswell of support for something that has very limited support.

Because it’s designed to look like grassroots support for the idea, but isn’t really grassroots, it’s sometimes called astroturfing.

I dare say any of us who are able to kvetch and carp in this forum is able to muster the technical savvy needed to send a lucid message that may well be incorporated into the policy that ends up on the books.

While in the notification there is a hyper link, when visiting the PFBC page under the proposed rule making section, there is little to no guidance on how to submit comments on a particular item.

The PFBC can do much better.