NY STATE record Brook Trout

[CRB]

Canoe Tripper Catches Record Trout in the Backcountry, Finds a Creative Way to Preserve It

New York angler Benjamin Ferguson caught the new state-record brook trout during a three-day canoe trip in the Adirondacks.

www.outdoorlife.com

Nice story of how he was able to get it certified.

 

[hooker-of-men]

What fly was it on?

 

[Nocktavius]

So he killed it...

cool.

 

[wardman]

Native?

 

[wildtrout2]

Native?

If it's a stocker, it's not a bad looking one.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Quite a bit of discussion on another forum about this being wild vs stocked. Apparently it came from a pretty remote lake that isn't stocked.

 

[wildtrout2]

Quite a bit of discussion on another forum about this being wild vs stocked. Apparently it came from a pretty remote lake that isn't stocked.

It could be wild. I was wondering though, if it could have been the product of one of those ariel drop stockings that they do on some remote lakes, like out west?

 

[klingy]

In looking into planning a remote pond trip in the Adirondacks, I was surprised how few still have self-reproducing populations. Out of the thousands of ponds and lakes in the park, only something like two-dozen have self-sustaining brookies. The vast majority of remote ponds (if they have trout) are stocked with fingerlings via helicopter. The introduction of other species has had a huge negative impact on the brookies.

With all of that being said, that could be a wild fish. In looking at growth data for ponds that have only brook trout, they can reach 12-13 inches in two years, so a fish that size wouldn’t take nearly as long to grow that big compared to our PA stream bred brook trout.

 

[hooker-of-men]

In looking into planning a remote pond trip in the Adirondacks, I was surprised how few still have self-reproducing populations. Out of the thousands of ponds and lakes in the park, only something like two-dozen have self-sustaining brookies. The vast majority of remote ponds (if they have trout) are stocked with fingerlings via helicopter. The introduction of other species has had a huge negative impact on the brookies.

Just out of curiosity, what is your source on this information? My experience has been that there are many, many ponds and very small streams that hold wild brook trout populations in the park. The state does not, in any clear way, publicize this information like PA does however. There are simply no accurate lists of natural production streams or ponds.

For example, my son and I fished a swamp / beaver pond last week that is within the park, contained wild brook trout, and would appear on no list of wild fish or even the DEC's map of gamefish waters. We were there to swim in adjacent waters, brought a rod along on a whim, and happened to catch a bunch of (very small, clearly wild) brookies.

I'm also curious about the statement regarding the introduction of other species. Do you have further information on this? The common narrative discussed up here - and often affirmed by the DEC, at least informally - is that the brook trout population declined because of acid rain due to industry in the Great Lakes area and warming temps all across the state. What research have you encountered about competing introduced species?

Thanks!

 

[klingy]

Just went back and double checked, and it’s more like 50ish ponds with documented brookie reproduction. I don't think this counts beaver ponds, just permanent lakes/ponds. I’m sure there are more out there, especially since acid rain is improving.

Here are a few sources for some good info on brookies in the Adirondacks. In a lot of the discussions, you’ll notice how much the brook trout populations crash once non-compatible species are introduced. This has led to the proposed regulation change from having certain waters where baitfish are prohibited, to having a blanket prohibition throughout the park with water bodies listed where you can have baitfish.

Adirondack Brook Trout Pond Management Plan

NY DEC Region 5 Fisheries Research

NY DEC Region 6 Fisheries Research

 

[hooker-of-men]

Just went back and double checked, and it’s more like 50ish ponds with documented brookie reproduction. I don't think this counts beaver ponds, just permanent lakes/ponds. I’m sure there are more out there, especially since acid rain is improving.

Here are a few sources for some good info on brookies in the Adirondacks. In a lot of the discussions, you’ll notice how much the brook trout populations crash once non-compatible species are introduced. This has led to the proposed regulation change from having certain waters where baitfish are prohibited, to having a blanket prohibition throughout the park with water bodies listed where you can have baitfish.

Adirondack Brook Trout Pond Management Plan

NY DEC Region 5 Fisheries Research

NY DEC Region 6 Fisheries Research

Thanks for the info!

I'm more knowledgeable about small streams than ponds, but, as an example, I would suggest taking a look at this DEC map and identifying wild trout waters:

Trout Stream Fishing Map User Guide

The Trout Stream Fishing Map is made of several layers on DECinfo Locator, an interactive map that lets you access DEC documents and public data.

dec.ny.gov

You'll see that there's something crazy like 10 or maybe 15 wild trout designated streams in the state. I can tell you with 100% confidence that there are more than 10 wild brook trout (and a handful of wild brown) streams within an hour of my house that are not on this list. Having talked to the designer of the map, the reasons for this vary from fish density to % of public access. Essentially, though, they are not actively tracking or publicizing wild brook trout streams. I cannot imagine the approach to wild pond information is radically different.

All of this is to say that (1) NYS sucks at providing info and (2) that you will likely be pleasantly surprised if you let finding cold water guide your trip rather than DEC info. A lot of my fishing happens, by design, at places that the DEC doesn't publish info on. However, I also catch lots of tiny trouts.

 

[klingy]

Yeah I’ve noticed that planning trips to many other states is way tougher than PA. Some states have very little published info out there about wild trout water. I would love to do a remote pond trip in the adirondacks, but if I’m going to put in the time and effort, I don’t want to fish for stocked fish (even if they are fingerling stockers). It looks like NY will be adding more info to their maps in the coming years, so that would help. From the streams I’ve fished up there, most of those brookies are relatively small, which makes a pond trip even more appealing.

 

[hooker-of-men]

Just out of curiosity, I reached out to a DEC dude I know whose work is focused in the park / High Peaks area. He's answered some questions for me in the past about wild trout stream surveys that were not public knowledge. I'm curious to see if I can get a ballpark sense of natural repro ponds. Will update if I get more info.

 

[TimMurphy]

Thanks for the info!

I'm more knowledgeable about small streams than ponds, but, as an example, I would suggest taking a look at this DEC map and identifying wild trout waters:

Trout Stream Fishing Map User Guide

The Trout Stream Fishing Map is made of several layers on DECinfo Locator, an interactive map that lets you access DEC documents and public data.

dec.ny.gov

You'll see that there's something crazy like 10 or maybe 15 wild trout designated streams in the state. I can tell you with 100% confidence that there are more than 10 wild brook trout (and a handful of wild brown) streams within an hour of my house that are not on this list. Having talked to the designer of the map, the reasons for this vary from fish density to % of public access. Essentially, though, they are not actively tracking or publicizing wild brook trout streams. I cannot imagine the approach to wild pond information is radically different.

All of this is to say that (1) NYS sucks at providing info and (2) that you will likely be pleasantly surprised if you let finding cold water guide your trip rather than DEC info. A lot of my fishing happens, by design, at places that the DEC doesn't publish info on. However, I also catch lots of tiny trouts.

Dear hooker-of-men,

I'll admit that it's been almost 25 years since I left the Southern Tier of NY but that map you posted definitely wasn't accurate back then.

I had probably close to a dozen thunderstorm cricks where I could stop between sales calls in the Southern Tier and catch a couple of brook trout reliably. Several were within 20 miles of Binghamton. I even found a couple of beaver ponds in the Catskills along town roads that always produced brookies, but they are probably long-gone or at least relocated by now.

I did most of my trout fishing back then during the week and picking my spots between sales calls. I had to wear dress slacks a dress shirt and tie for work. I got a lot of waves and horn honks while rock hopping trout streams with a fly rod back then. 😉

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[jifigz]

Just from some time spent as a tourist in the ADKs (I like it there, and I will be back up in August for a couple of days), but anglers spreading LMB and pike were an issue with the brookies. Furthermore, a distant relative of my mother has had a cabin on Twitchell Lake for a long time, and now this deceased distant relative's children have cabins on Twitchell Lake, too. These "children" I speak of are now in their 60's, I would say, but regardless, they have stated how during their time spent up there over the last many decades, people have spread yellow perch, lake trout, pike, and bass which have greatly devastated the brook trout fisheries.

This is just hearsay from locals up there, or at least from people who spent all summer there. They actually lived closer to Rochester and Utica. Those cabins on Twitchell were cool, though. If you've ever seen On Golden Pond, it was the same type of setup. The USPS mail boat comes once a day, etc. These people didn't have road access to their cabins, and they could only access it via boat.

The invasive species and angler spreading them thing is definitely something I have heard, though.

 

[poopdeck]

I bet anglers keeping brook trout hasn’t helped the brook trout population. I’ll never understand why anybody cares about a record enough to keep a fish contained over night in a water filled canoe so they can paddle it out the next day to get it weighed. I guess only true sportsman can understand this. Funnier, or sad, yet is the buddy also getting into the hero shot selfie with what amounts to nothing more than a large small fish.

 

[DO_inthewoods]

Grew up near the ADK, went to college and fished their a ton. The trout population has a long history, first with severe acidification from industrial air pollution, then more recently with warm water species moving in.

A lot of the flatter, boggy water you can find some pretty big bass and pike. But thankfully there are lots of good size streams with brookies only that aren't listed anywhere. Unfortunately the Stillwater fisheries are pretty tenuous.

Was canoe camping in the same region as the record this past weekend and caught several decent brook trout in the teens!

 

[Cznymph]

I bet anglers keeping brook trout hasn’t helped the brook trout population. I’ll never understand why anybody cares about a record enough to keep a fish contained over night in a water filled canoe so they can paddle it out the next day to get it weighed. I guess only true sportsman can understand this. Funnier, or sad, yet is the buddy also getting into the hero shot selfie with what amounts to nothing more than a large small fish.

Maybe someday fishery managers will be able to account for angler harvest in their management plans.