New Sage BASS RODS !!!!!!!

Fredrick

Fredrick

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I was bored today at work ,I/M's are still sleeping because its a federal holidayand did some surfing on the internet and this is what I came up with !!!!!! Its time to try our skills at the big Bass tourny's I can't wait to cast it !!!! :-D

http://www.sageflyfish.com/default.asp?p=139
 
C

CAMBYSES

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well, I better start saving!!!

thanks Fred, now my fiancee is really gonna hang me!!!

can I tell her its your fault?


Bob
 
ginkyhackle

ginkyhackle

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Sweet stick but at 7'11" seems like you'd want to fish this from a boat, right? Perhaps this rod is intended to place the user side-by-side with the bassmasters, rather than giving you the leverage to cast across a river. I think they are attempting to put something together that conforms to the B.A.S.S. regs, but wouldn't this thing load less powerfully than a 9 foot Sage? Since I don't have a boat, I'd probably choose a 9' Fli if I were shopping for something in this range.

VERY interesting concept though!
 
Padraic

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Ginky,

The description makes it sound like they made these rods specifically for the B.A.S.S. tourneys (or events that use those rules)

"both rods measure 7'11", which slides them just under the strict bass tournament rules for rod length. Additionally, both rods are sold with custom bass taper flylines and a travel case for protection"

I wonder about the need for the special flyline. Is that because the rod doesn't load well and you need a heavy front taper? Dunno, but this whole concept strikes me as a bunch of hooey for the typical flyfisher who just wants to catch a few.
 
Fredrick

Fredrick

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What I like about this rod is that they are thinking outside the box, does that foot acually do that much more of a difference in casting ? ... I say don't form an opinion until you cast it . And Bob if you need a fall guy i'm your man :-D
 
ginkyhackle

ginkyhackle

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You know Fellas:

If you created a really wide base that was almost parabolic in structure, a really dense line could move relatively well on a rod like this. Again, I'm thinking, like Padraic, that you'd have to go to heroic lengths to get this rod to load in anything like a traditional manner. However, if you're on a boat, in an elevated position you might be able to get some distance. Interesting concept, this short and girthy rod thing -- Scott has a "backwater" rod that has a similar form. I'd love to hear from someone who has cast one of these.
 
Fredrick

Fredrick

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I just talked to someone from Tco Mainline about the rod and he said they have it in stock and it casts amazingly but i'm going to have to go up there and find out this one for myself and let you know about my expierence :pint:
 
beeber2

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290 grains (smallmouth) puts the line in the 10-weight range. That would be mighty tough on the wrist for an all-day outing. I'd rather use my 10 ft 6 wt for poppers and my 9 ft 7 wt for streamers for smallies on rivers.

http://www.anglersworkshop.com/aw/article_html/line_weight.doc.html?title=Line%20Weight%20Standards&cat=Fly%20Fishing
 
Fredrick

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Here is more info on the rods !!


http://www.tcoflyfishing.com/1Rods_DetailViewer.cfm?type=BASS
 
ginkyhackle

ginkyhackle

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Hmmm. I have yet to cast a stinky Sage which makes me think that there is some kind of secret here. I wish they gave more detail. The rod must be strangely thick given its length. Otherwise it would no work at all. I also wonder if they're doing something special with the modulus of the graphite itself.
 
L

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“I don’t know, but I’ve been told” by very reliable fly fishers in the know, that fly fishing is not permitted in B.A.S.S. tourneys. Its use is banned in their events. So being a doubting “Thomas” and always wanting to check my sources accuracy, I went looking on Google and here’s what I found at

2006-2007 OFFICAL RULES, BASS FEDERATION NATION TOURNAMENTS:

7. TACKLE AND EQUIPMENT: The use of grippers in landing bass is prohibited. Only artificial lures and biodegradable artificial lures may be used. No “live bait” or “prepared bait” will be permitted during official practice and competition, with the exception of pork strips or rinds. Only ONE casting, spin-casting or spinning rod (8-foot maximum length from butt of handle to rod tip) and reel may be used at any one time. Other rigs as specified above may be in boat ready for use; however, only ONE is permitted in use at any given time. All bass must be caught live and in a conventional sporting manner. Anyone guilty of snatching or snagging visible fish will have his/her catch disqualified. When visually fishing for bedding bass, to be counted as a legal fish all bass must be hooked inside the mouth and must be verified by your partner before being unhooked.

That’s the complete paragraph. What do you know; my sources were right; by rule: fly fishing rods and reels can’t be used in BASS tournaments. And please notice that to get to the 8-foot max length rule, Sage personnel had to read right past the fact that ONLY casting and spinning rods & reels are allowed to be used. It’s in the same sentence. And according to the next sentence, “Other rigs as specified above may be in boat ready for use”. By implication fly fishing equipment is not “as specified above” and therefore not even allowed in the boat. One can only assume that if found with fly fishing equipment on board, the angler would be disqualified for having illegal equipment.

This begs the question, what is Sage’s implication in their statement that “both rods measure 7'11", which slides them just under the strict bass tournament rules for rod length.” Are they misleading the fly fishing public by implying a fly rod, if less then 8’ in length, is legal in BASS tournaments? When clearly by BASS rule fly fishing equipment, no matter what the length, is not even permitted in the boat. Sage even calls them “the strict bass tournament rules”.

Fred, I don’t mean to rain on your parade, I just hate being mislead. IMHO, at best Sage is misleading us with the idea that somehow their bass rods can be used in a BASS tournament, when clearly they cannot. Previous posters on this thread, who are certainly more knowledgeable then me in fly rod design, have pointed out other fly rod specifications, for example length to properly load the rod, that would provide a better designed rod for the purpose of casting bass flies. Yet, Sage starts the discussion with, and rather conspiratorially I might add, as if this is all top secret, Hush! Hush! We’re the only ones who know, “After working with a small, tight-lipped group of serious bass anglers, we’ve developed two new rods”. This “small, tight lipped group” must all be in the marketing dept, because they sure came up with a whopper for advertisement copy.

So my conclusion is simply Sage is not being sage at all (Please excuse the pun, I couldn’t help myself). Except for increasing their sales revenue, Sage has not come up with anything better in the way of casting bass flies. Maybe new, but on the surface, not better. They just want to mislead you into thinking you need another fly rod. And there’s a lot of misleading going along in the fishing business. Take, for example, the implication that the larger the circumference of a single action fly reel the faster it will retrieve line. Mind you, there are other “real” advantages to a large arbor reel, but faster retrieve is not one of them. It’s a single action reel folks! There is no mechanical action. There is no gearing. The input is at the circumference of the reel, not it’s axis as on say a car wheel or a bicycle wheel or for that matter even, let me think, ah yes, even the first fly reel Charles F. Orvis designed. The one that started the Orvis Empire. Check it out, Orvis’s reel has the handle connected to the axle of the reel, like on a casting reel, not it’s rim. We’re going backwards in reel design. But that’s a whole ‘nother discussion. I’ve gone on to long with this.
Tight lines,
Larry
 
afishinado

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Fred,

The one thing I’m confident of is that Sage makes quality rods. Whether it casts and fishes better for you, only you can be the judge.

Go to the shop, bring some flies with you to cast test cast (with the hook points cut off), and give it try. That’s the only thing that really counts.

Some advice though, if you are in the market for a new bass rod, try other brands and models before you make a decision. There are a lot of good rods out there in the $350 range.

Good luck.
 
ginkyhackle

ginkyhackle

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Guys:

Seems like other groups of folks have been having this very same discussion on other boards. While I would agree with the folks who argue that Sage makes great rods, I'm just not certain how this concept would work. -- Now Scott, as I mentioned earlier, has been producing a model called the "Backwater Special" which seems nearly identical to the Sage product.

Shortness does make sense form a leverage standpoint. A rod like this would place the fulcrum closer to the angler, thereby giving you amazing lifting power, like a shorter saltwater rod. That's just elementary mechanics. However, loading on a rod like this should necessarily mean short and somewhat sloppy delivery. Sure, the power would be there, but I don't conceptually get how you could ease up on the "big fly" you'd be tossing. For largemouths, maybe this is not all that important, but conceivably a really poor presentation could send a smallmouth running for the hills.

Of course with all of that oomph, you could probably lift an overweight tarpon with one of these things.

Again, if I'm on a bass boat, tossing surface bugs inshore, I'd be totally happy with a short delivery rod like this. However, the likelihood of me ever being able to afford a candyapple green Ranger powerboat is remote. Therefore, I'll probably need to rely on rods over 9' for rivers.

Also -- it seems that the Scott Backcounty comes in a two handed version which (at least theoretically) would give a caster more leverage (just like a mini switch rod). The Scott would, therefore, be a better choice.
 
ginkyhackle

ginkyhackle

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Oh, and here's a video of Sage's Jerry Seim playin' with the bass rod:

http://flyfishing.hook.tv/Clip.aspx?key=24F154264540A260
 
Fredrick

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I don't really don't plan on being in a bass tourny even though I own a boat but it would be nice to see how I would do compared to the spin fisherman.Maybee this rod will help change the rules so we can test out our skills . Despite what sage said about the rod I am going to cast it first to form my opinion . I don't think you need that extra foot for casting and a drag free drift is not really important in bass fishing so the extra foot is not really needed . Without even casting it what I see with this rod is a rod that from the line on up is designed to (cast big wind resistant bass flies with ease) When they were designing this rod they weren't thinking out of the box and did something no other rod designer has done they were thinking like a bass fisherman not like a trout fisherman thats likes to fish for bass..... I hope this helps the other rod companys to also start thinking out of the box....

Ginky I like the video but you can't see the casting really well but I plan on going to cast one myself today and I will tell you how it goes :-D
 
L

lestrout

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Based on some new heavy shorties by Bill Taylor, Rick Robbins and Wyatt Dietrich (all canes in 7'7wt) and having used numerous parabolics and semi-parabolics, with the right taper designs you don't need a lot of rod length to deliver a bass bug.

Back in the early days of Harry Wilson and Scott Rods (when they were still in Cali), they espoused the concept of a slower, longer cycle loading stick to pick up fluffy bass bugs better.

Maybe Sage, looking at the immense bass industry, is trying to capitalize on a bigger potential market. Also, with weedy lakes and the cross-their-eyeballs approach, there's something to be said for using the aforementioned mechanical advantage to winch the spiny rays out of the debris and into the boat. After all, the serious SW boat rods for umpteen hunnert pound tuna and the like are realy short.

tl
les
 
ginkyhackle

ginkyhackle

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Fred:

Here's the think judging from where the fly lands and how he was holding the rod, it seems like he made an underhand cast to me, which is okay, but I think it says something about the action of the rod. It looks like the deerhair bug he was casting listed to the right on the upswing. That's what happen to me when I make that cast with my 9' 8wt -- however, he seems to be listing widely to the right.

Les makes an excellent point about taper. I've seen short bamboo sticks with a "bass taper;" however, the seem wider at the base than the Sage rod. I've seen good photos of the Scott stick (which is much more expensive) and it seem more girthy at the base. That would make sense to me for the reasons Les details. I'm going to see if I can track down a video of the Scott rod being casted.
 
ginkyhackle

ginkyhackle

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Okay Guys:

Here's the only link I could find that actually shows the $625 Scott Backcountry (not Backwater) rod. It looks more like a traditional heavy-duty freshwater rod than the Sage rod, and as with all Scott products, it is finished in a much classier manner than the Sage. I really don't like the fighting butt and hardware Sage placed on their "value" series (fli, launch and this Bass stick). There is really no excuse for scrimping on already inexpensive items like these. For example the TFO TiCr (7wt and up) and much sturdier hardware and a nice fighting butt -- however that rod does not come with a tube and is made in South Korea (still compares with high-end Sages for much less!)

I can't seem to find what kind of line this stick is meant to throw. Again, it looks like a classic 7/8wt.

http://www.flyfishingoutfitters.com/p/s/viewitem.aspx?pid=ROD-SCO-CONC-977
 
Fredrick

Fredrick

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Well I went down to TCO mainline today to cast the rod. It was like they were waiting for me the rod was all ready strung up with a fly , a deerhair frog with four legs. They only had the smallie rod there which sucked because I wanted to try both rods .... The smallie rod casted awesome so good that he only put 6 ft on 20 lb line on it and it casted the bug like a rocket with ease and accuracy it turned over the fly with no problem with just one segment of leader . The rod was also light in had and I don't think that I wouldn't have any problems with using it all day casting giant flies . This rod is a bargin for the price all you need is a reel and your in like Flynt . I would recomend this rod to anyone who likes to cast big flies ounce you try this rod I don't think that you will ever go back to the old way of fishing for Bass.. :-D
 
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