Future potential for fully automated forest regeneration: mind blown

[Fish Sticks]

Forest restoration: concepts and the potential for its automation

ABSTRACT: In 2014, the UN New York Climate Summit set a goal to restore forest to 350 million hectares of degraded land by 2030, to counter...

www.forru.org

 

[silverfox]

Forest restoration: concepts and the potential for its automation

ABSTRACT: In 2014, the UN New York Climate Summit set a goal to restore forest to 350 million hectares of degraded land by 2030, to counter...

www.forru.org

That is fascinating. I was involved in drone development early on and did a lot of beta testing for 3DR on their autopilot and the solo platform, and still maintain my FAA license for commercial use. I used them for photogrammetry to gather high-resolution texture maps for point cloud data for mapping and briefly for inspection and background videos for site design modeling. The automated flight path technology coupled with AI to allow the autopilot to make on-the-fly adjustments to flight paths has gotten really good.

I know the DJI matrice (https://www.dji.com/matrice-200-series) can be fitted with a hopper and is used for fertilizer and pesticide application. I saw Jake Lemon give a presentation on how TU uses drones for thermal mapping on rivers (https://flylordsmag.com/how-trout-unlimited-is-using-drones-to-change-conservation/). One of the issues with that is the thermal cameras can only see the surface temperature of the water, which means they might miss thermal upwellings in deeper water, but it's still a fascinating use of the technology.

For automated seeding (as with most other automated drone applications), I'm sure flight time is the primary limiting factor. Once they nail down automated docking/charging (they're basically there now) and redeployment, that will be a game-changer.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Yea i was very impressed with using a designed seed pod made of hydrogels containing fertilizer, water, growth factors, and a beneficial microbiota. I wonder what happens to the success rate when the seeds are dropped in their own little beneficial growth promoting micro environment like that? The idea that as the drones fly over other areas to deposit new seeds they can be monitoring for canopy closure in previously seeded areas and transmitting data is redonculous. I gotta think chesapeake bay foundation and these could get grant money for this when 3d printing of fibrous hydrogels and automated docking/ recharging stations are available.

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

Forest restoration: concepts and the potential for its automation

ABSTRACT: In 2014, the UN New York Climate Summit set a goal to restore forest to 350 million hectares of degraded land by 2030, to counter...

www.forru.org

Intersting stuff 👍.. Technology and science is always evolving. I read that winch assisted logging started in PA last fall. Its supposed to be a safe, efficient method to log slopes without bad erosion. What impacts will that have on headwaters and tribs of PA? How much woody debris will be left behind in stream beds?

 

[troutbert]

Intersting stuff 👍.. Technology and science is always evolving. I read that winch assisted logging started in PA last fall. Its supposed to be a safe, efficient method to log slopes without bad erosion. What impacts will that have on headwaters and tribs of PA? How much woody debris will be left behind in stream beds?

Do you have a link to the winch assisted logging techniques?

Regarding woody debris in streams, the solution is buffers along streams where no timber harvesting is done. I'm pretty sure state forests already have such buffers. I'm not sure about other areas.

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

I read about it last summer/ fall in a written edition of Potter Leader Enterprise or Endeavor (Emporium). I'm sure you could find it by googling " winch assisted logging in PA Lyme Timber Emporium, PA. Apologies for not copying and posting. I'm kind of computer illiterate.

 

[troutbert]

Winch-Assisted Logging Boosts Safety on Steep Terrain | Rayonier Stories

Winch assist machines are improving logger safety on some of the toughest sites to log. They serve as an anchor for heavy equipment, making it possible to log many steep slopes from the safety of a cab rather than having to cut trees on foot. In this story, we show how a winch-assist system...

www.rayonier.com

This appears to be a description of it.

 

[troutbert]

In PA forests, there is often a lot of seedlings regenerating from neighboring trees. But then the deer eat them. In much of PA that is the main thing hindering forest regeneration.

Drones aren't a solution for that.

 

[Fish Sticks]

In PA forests, there is often a lot of seedlings regenerating from neighboring trees. But then the deer eat them. In much of PA that is the main thing hindering forest regeneration.

Drones aren't a solution for that.

The deer thing is a real issue.

Predator drones?

 

[troutbert]

The deer thing is a real issue.

Predator drones?

There's a much easier solution, that wouldn't cost anything:

The Game Commission could just issue more doe permits. That's the way to bring down deer populations. But deer herd reduction is controversial, of course.

You probably don't remember the PA Deer Wars. They made the Trout Wars look like a stroll in the park.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Troutbert, but then you need willing hunters to actually fill those tags. In much of the bigwoods in ncpa the herd was rebounding and probably getting too high, then we had that winter ~3 years ago where we got 3feet of snow around Christmas. There was several feet of hard pack in most of the mountains, many deer died and the herd still hasn't "recovered".

Some research is indicating soil quality in particular pH may be limiting regen in a lot of pa forests.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Im sure like anything else ecological its multifactorial. I have 6 mostly forested acres with an un forested portion by one of the streams on the property so i had the alliance for chesapeake out, a guy I know from working with streams elsewhere. He’s got a graduate degree in forestry. Now I don’t know about other areas of the state but he told me the problem is deer and he mentioned the whole PGC doe tag issue. He said the amount of deer on my land is insane because when he sees deer bite marks on spice bush he said its like a human eating cardboard, these things are very plentiful and eating what ever they can find. He wants to do 2000 live stakes in my wetland area and said he is anticipating heavy deer activity once that happens. The tree tubes in the drier areas I am bot as worried about. But when the sun starts to set these things come over the ridge into the valley behind my house and there are like 20-25 of them. Our soil is very basic because we have a lot of karst geology and there are 5 or 6 springs on the property so i don’t think its that. There are just very little young trees. Wish I could thin the herd. Guess i can’t be mad at the deer, we killed all their natural predators.

 

[troutbert]

Some research is indicating soil quality in particular pH may be limiting regen in a lot of pa forests.

I'm sure that's true. I noticed years ago that in the high plateau areas, often you see almost nothing growing under the canopy except ferns. Then as you drive along and come down slightly in elevation, suddenly there is a lot of vegetation in the understory. Often it appears as a distinct line, an abrupt transition in the understory, even though the canopy trees looked pretty similar. I think the explanation is that going down in the elevation, you cross the line onto a more fertile soil type, because of different underlying bedrock.

One place I noticed this is on Ridge Rd, Route 144, between Snowshoe and Renovo, but I've also seen it elsewhere.

But, even in those high plateau areas, people are getting tree regeneration, by using deer fences.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Comparing trying to grow trees in a suburban Karst valley to the bigwoods in NCPA is apple to oranges as it gets...

Deer browse is an issue in growing trees almost everywhere and certainly is a top priority in areas of very high deer densities in mixed suburban/ ag areas.


Good observations Troutbert, I would just add deer fences don't always ensure regen, well arleast not regen of desirable species...

 

[JeffK]

One area I hike in is along a cliff. There is a narrow band at the base of the cliff where the rocky talus makes it hard for deer to walk creating a narrow band of undergrowth. Elsewhere, the deer eat everything up to 6 or 7 ft high. When Hurricane Sandy knocked down many woods all that grew back was barberry and ferns. When I was in Michigan they hadn't had a white cedar grow on its own for 80 years. All the cedars had been protected until they were high enough to survive. Deer are a real problem for forests.

 

[Fish Sticks]

One area I hike in is along a cliff. There is a narrow band at the base of the cliff where the rocky talus makes it hard for deer to walk creating a narrow band of undergrowth. Elsewhere, the deer eat everything up to 6 or 7 ft high. When Hurricane Sandy knocked down many woods all that grew back was barberry and ferns. When I was in Michigan they hadn't had a white cedar grow on its own for 80 years. All the cedars had been protected until they were high enough to survive. Deer are a real problem for forests.

i often wonder how much more large woody debris, hummicky foresred wet areas, and canopy cover mountain streams would have if the game commission just issued more doe tags.

 

[pcray1231]

I'm sure that's true. I noticed years ago that in the high plateau areas, often you see almost nothing growing under the canopy except ferns. Then as you drive along and come down slightly in elevation, suddenly there is a lot of vegetation in the understory. Often it appears as a distinct line, an abrupt transition in the understory, even though the canopy trees looked pretty similar. I think the explanation is that going down in the elevation, you cross the line onto a more fertile soil type, because of different underlying bedrock.

Those abrupt transitions are typically tree/forest type. Now, that may have something to do with the soil, sure.. But that high and dry, nothing growing underneath is mainly oak-hickory forest type. The understory is generally low growing stuff like ferns, maybe some huckleberry or mountain laurel patches, but not much in the way of tree regrowth or things that interrupt the line of sight. It looks wide open "pole timber". As you go down you get a more northern hardwood type, with beech, birch, hickory, maple, cherry, etc., so more variation in tree size. And there'll be more regrowth there, in addition to line of sight stuff like grapevines, witch hazel, etc.

I'd also call attention to logging practices a decade ago. A lot of our forests aren't mixed age. You may have a stand of uniformly 120 year old oaks. In such places, there just isn't going to be much undergrowth. Sure, lightning may hit the odd tree and fell it, leaving a 20 sq. ft spot where light gets through, a sapling will start and immediately get overbrowsed. But if that's your measure, 1 deer in the whole forest is too many, because it takes 1 deer about 20 minutes to overbrowse such a small area. If you get a larger area, like a blowdown or a couple acre clearcut, regrowth does happen.

And regarding doe licenses. There are lots and lots of places that have overpopulations of deer, but they aren't where people hunt. I'm not sure how to solve that issue, but doe licenses aren't targeted to a small enough area. You end up with the "tag gets used where it ain't needed, and no tag used where it is needed" effect.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Those abrupt transitions are typically tree/forest type. Now, that may have something to do with the soil, sure.. But that high and dry, nothing growing underneath is mainly oak-hickory forest type. The understory is generally low growing stuff like ferns, maybe some huckleberry or mountain laurel patches, but not much in the way of tree regrowth or things that interrupt the line of sight. It looks wide open. As you go down you get a more northern hardwood type, with beech, birch, hickory, maple, cherry, etc. And there'll be more regrowth there, in addition to line of sight stuff like grapevines, witch hazel, etc.

I'd also call attention to logging practices a decade ago. A lot of our forests aren't mixed age. You may have a stand of uniformly 120 year old oaks. In such places, there just isn't going to be much undergrowth. Sure, lightning may hit the odd tree and fell it, leaving a 20 sq. ft spot where light gets through, a sapling will start and immediately get overbrowsed. But if that's your measure, 1 deer in the whole forest is too many, because it takes 1 deer about 20 minutes to overbrowse such a small area. If you get a larger area, like a blowdown or a couple acre clearcut, regrowth does happen.

And regarding doe licenses. There are lots and lots of places that have overpopulations of deer, but they aren't where people hunt. I'm not sure how to solve that issue, but doe licenses aren't targeted to a small enough area. You end up with the "tag gets used where it ain't needed, and no tag used where it is needed" effect.

Yea there are like next to no significant predation/hunting I would assume in these Ag/ suburban patches of forest. They need to do something where your actually trying to get buffers planted and they are going next to streams ect. It would be nice if game comission could thin them some how in those areas.

I have seen timbered SGL with lots some small trees trying trying to spring up and lots of deer. I can see them being an issue in these areas.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Fish sticks, if you need some deer removed from your property I am sure you could find a willing hunter on this page to come archery hunt and take a doe or 2.

 

[pcray1231]

Just let me know ahead of time so I can get a doe license for the right place.