For those interested in Native Brook Trout conservation! Bookmark this

[Fish Sticks]

Addendum to James Suleski's Story "Pennsylvania Natives" - Fly Fisherman

Links and sources for his article on watershed-wide management and why we need to stop stocking invasive species.

www.flyfisherman.com

I tried to put together a fairly comprehensive organized compilation of a lot of information relevant to native brook trout conservation for you all.

Figured it might be helpful to search topics of interest or should you have a question in the future its a place to start. My hope is that it will also be shared/seen by new forum members and others outside the forum. Please pass along to anyone with interest. There are multiple videos, articles, papers, and mapping tools ect.

Anyone who has spoken with me knows I feel strongly that lack of public education on this topic has resulted in lack of accountability at PA fish and boat when it comes to native brook trout conservation and handling of invasive species.

 

[Tigereye]

Found this buried in there. Quite interesting

 

[2bmeuc]

I just read the article in my issue of Fly Fisherman. It saddens me, the PFBC is so impotent on this matter. I’m hopeful this article will raise the awareness to a level that PFBC takes action.
I grew up in NC PA in the 80s and always thought the PA Game, as well as, the Fish & Boat Commission were topnotch and a step above other Northeastern agencies. Either I was wrong or they have regressed.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I just read the article in my issue of Fly Fisherman. It saddens me, the PFBC is so impotent on this matter. I’m hopeful this article will raise the awareness to a level that PFBC takes action.
I grew up in NC PA in the 80s and always thought the PA Game, as well as, the Fish & Boat Commission were topnotch and a step above other Northeastern agencies. Either I was wrong or they have regressed.

Impotent is a hilarious but fitting choice of words. Yea the article itself won’t change their behavior but i see it as a step to increasing peoples awareness of the fisheries science thats been ignored and there is some number out there, don’t know what it is, of concerned general public calling for agency reform that will get this done.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Found this buried in there. Quite interesting

Yea Tom clark just moved on to new job i heard so I am hoping he still posts his final study results

 

[silverfox]

I just read the article in my issue of Fly Fisherman. It saddens me, the PFBC is so impotent on this matter. I’m hopeful this article will raise the awareness to a level that PFBC takes action.
I grew up in NC PA in the 80s and always thought the PA Game, as well as, the Fish & Boat Commission were topnotch and a step above other Northeastern agencies. Either I was wrong or they have regressed.

The PGC has made some bold moves that have angered some constituents. I don't think anyone lost their job, and I highly doubt it impacted license sales. It might have even improved license sales.

I don't know if PFBC thought the other states were all crazy, or if they didn't want to appear to be following what others were doing, or if it's just the fear of upsetting the apple cart, or if they misinterpreted findings from the wild brook trout enhancement program, or if they truly think they can fix everything with lunker bunkers.

Maybe they just wrote off brook trout earlier than others and deliberately focused on developing other species. Maybe they think we have far more brook trout than we actually do. Maybe they think the populations are more secure here somehow than in other places. I have no real idea, but it's painfully obvious at this point and only getting more egregious by the day.

 

[2bmeuc]

Impotent is a hilarious but fitting choice of words. Yea the article itself won’t change their behavior but i see it as a step to increasing peoples awareness of the fisheries science thats been ignored and there is some number out there, don’t know what it is, of concerned general public calling for agency reform that will get this done.

😉

 

[Fish Sticks]

😉

I have been asking people to basically call their elected representatives, David Maloney(new chair of fish and game committee), write Josh Shapiro and tell their non fishing friends they are important stake holders in Pa ecosystems/conservation and this is a real issue. I don’t think its going to take an overwhelming majority of Pennsylvanians actively demanding change to get this done.

 

[2bmeuc]

Will do. I’m in Maryland, so not sure if they care what I think, but my family is throughout Tioga County. I’ll make sure they know as well and urge them to call/write.

 

[salmonoid]

The PGC has made some bold moves that have angered some constituents. I don't think anyone lost their job, and I highly doubt it impacted license sales. It might have even improved license sales.

I don't know if PFBC thought the other states were all crazy, or if they didn't want to appear to be following what others were doing, or if it's just the fear of upsetting the apple cart, or if they misinterpreted findings from the wild brook trout enhancement program, or if they truly think they can fix everything with lunker bunkers.

Maybe they just wrote off brook trout earlier than others and deliberately focused on developing other species. Maybe they think we have far more brook trout than we actually do. Maybe they think the populations are more secure here somehow than in other places. I have no real idea, but it's painfully obvious at this point and only getting more egregious by the day.

Gary Alt has left the chat....

 

[troutbert]

The PGC has made some bold moves that have angered some constituents. I don't think anyone lost their job, and I highly doubt it impacted license sales. It might have even improved license sales.

I don't know if PFBC thought the other states were all crazy, or if they didn't want to appear to be following what others were doing, or if it's just the fear of upsetting the apple cart, or if they misinterpreted findings from the wild brook trout enhancement program, or if they truly think they can fix everything with lunker bunkers.

Maybe they just wrote off brook trout earlier than others and deliberately focused on developing other species. Maybe they think we have far more brook trout than we actually do. Maybe they think the populations are more secure here somehow than in other places. I have no real idea, but it's painfully obvious at this point and only getting more egregious by the day.

John Arway lost his job for trying to change things at the PFBC.

And state legislators have threatened numerous times to eliminate the PFBC as an independent agency.

From reading these posts, I wonder how much yinz know of the history.

Do you know the Young Womans Creek history and Cross Fork Creek history, for example?

 

[silverfox]

John Arway lost his job for trying to change things at the PFBC.

And state legislators have threatened numerous times to eliminate the PFBC as an independent agency.

From reading these posts, I wonder how much yinz know of the history.

Do you know the Young Womans Creek history and Cross Fork Creek history, for example?

Excuses. That's the history—lots and lots of excuses.

I've heard all kinds of things, but at the end of the day, all they are, are excuses. Excuses for why things haven't changed and why they're unlikely to change. The details are irrelevant, frankly. It all boils down to inaction. For whatever reason. The forensics are just fluff to muddy the water and distract from the sad fact that they're all just excuses.

 

[Fish Sticks]

John Arway openly threatened the legislature to stop stocking entire districts as a direct result of them not supporting a fee increase. Had nothing to do with fisheries management. Also there was no pressure being put on the legislature, now we are asking them to reign in PFBC.

There is this odd dynamic, even in people who talk about wanting change, that “you can’t do this” “that’s impossible” “ thats crazy it will never work”. We need to stop building our own road blocks and focus on holding PFBC accountable.

There is no advocate for change “Lite” version where you send in a hand penned letter to PFBC as has been suggested and they just change their mind after that strategy not working for decades. They don’t care at all and have no interest in changing. Either hold them accountable in court of public opinion, with their oversight committees, or both. There is no “i support this but am not willing to do anything besides wait in the shadows for change”.

 

[troutbert]

And how about Doug Austen? He was highly educated, had a Phd. And was only there 4 years. Did he just decide to jump, or was he pushed? I think he pushed, or at least realized that he was not going to be able to use his fisheries knowledge at PFBC, because the decisions are made by the Commissioners, who have no fisheries education or experience.

 

[troutbert]

Gary Alt has left the chat....

How about it.

I thought everyone knew the Gary Alt story. Apparently not.

 

[Fish Sticks]

And how about Doug Austen? He was highly educated, had a Phd. And was only there 4 years. Did he just decide to jump, or was he pushed? I think he pushed, or at least realized that he was not going to be able to use his fisheries knowledge at PFBC, because the decisions are made by the Commissioners, who have no fisheries education or experience.

Its time for PFBC to get pushed, by legislators

 

[silverfox]

Gary Alt has left the chat....

FWIW, I was referring to the recent season opener change, Sunday hunting, unlimited doe tags, changes in equipment rules etc.

 

[Tigereye]

"Its time for PFBC to get pushed, by legislators"

We need to be careful there. I see the point that the commissioners need some buttkicking now and then. My problem is, legislators are beholden to some folks that dont necessarily have the fisher-folks' best interest in mind. They are beholden to money and the Quixotic desire to be re-elected. We have a hard enough time convincing comishes to do the right thing. Imagine convincinng 203 state legislators and 50 state senators.

Caveat emptor

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

"Its time for PFBC to get pushed, by legislators"

We need to be careful there. I see the point that the commissioners need some buttkicking now and then. My problem is, legislators are beholden to some folks that dont necessarily have the fisher-folks' best interest in mind. They are beholden to money and the Quixotic desire to be re-elected. We have a hard enough time convincing comishes to do the right thing. Imagine convincinng 203 state legislators and 50 state senators.

Caveat emptor

Yep.. Stockings are photo ops for some Pennsylvania elected folk. See PA Fish and Boat Media on YouTube.

 

[Fish Sticks]

"Its time for PFBC to get pushed, by legislators"

We need to be careful there. I see the point that the commissioners need some buttkicking now and then. My problem is, legislators are beholden to some folks that dont necessarily have the fisher-folks' best interest in mind. They are beholden to money and the Quixotic desire to be re-elected. We have a hard enough time convincing comishes to do the right thing. Imagine convincinng 203 state legislators and 50 state senators.

Caveat emptor

Oh yea they have been in favor of it to date every legislature has their own “heres your fish, we are dumping them in your district. Don’t forget to vote for me” type video on YT. But its the combination of the financial waste, license increases because PA fish and boat rather face financial insolvency than take PSU bussiness analysis’s recommendations to cut hatcheries and fish, deception of the public, using 20 some million in growing greener for hatchery’s that was supposed to go to conservation, and being a derelict resource manager thats hard to stand behind and support. If the general public gets a sense of just how bad things have gotten and people start calling their elected officials, a small number of people could make up a large proportion of the outreach to those senate and congress office.

I don’t think what I am saying has a chance if you put it up against all of stocking. BUT if PA fish and boat is going broke and raiding conservation grants to stay alive I think we could get a special management zone/watershed and some direct stocking cut. Maybe some brook trout specific c and r regs. I mean PSU said in 2017 cut fish and a hatchery or two or go broke. If it wasn’t for that 27.5 million of growing greener in 2020 PFBC used for repairs tbey prob would have had their hatcheries shut down by DEP for bot meeting effluent standards after what ever grace period they had expired.

I don’t think people realize how bad the financial situation is at PA fish and boat currently. Their in trouble, I am not trying to move mountains here these fools are either going to go broke or find a way to more efficiently leach off the tax payer. Ya can’t hike licenses for ever people drop out.