6xAdams(Jones)
Well-known member
90% of the explanation about hatch-matching that a person might need to know is in Vincent Marinaro's "A Modern Dry Fly Code." Granted, it contains a lot of painstakingly detailed information, but one can find descriptions of situations when matching matters - and when it doesn't. It also contains some humor - which is only funny to a flyfisherman or flyfisherwoman.
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tomgamber
Well-known member
Kind of place that'll teach you how to roll can't if you aren't wading.
tomgamber
Well-known member
Perhaps somewhere other than Idaho. Although the wider river does lend to that.I guess what I was getting at is there's much more opportunity for an easy back cast from the bank... often, but not always in the West
tomgamber
Well-known member
I lived in Idaho for 5 years and I totally disagree. I fished 250 days a year. False.
JSky
Member
One of my favorite days fly fishing was on the Madison River in the fall during a huge trico hatch. I despise those little flies, any small fly in general really. I reluctantly tied on a size 20 trico dry, got skunked for an hour. Switched to a griffiths gnat, caught one and missed one. Then put on a size 8 bead head pats rubber legs and caught 10 fish over 16“ in the next two hours while my friends who were still matching the hatch got skunked. After lunch I switched to a hopper and caught about 6 more. Being able to buck the match the hatch trend and get away from small flies to larger ones made my day.
turkey
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6xAdams(Jones)
Well-known member
I'm left wondering why you found this amusing... For me, learning on dry flies ruined me for wet fly fishing. I can never get knack and the only fish I catch on wet flies are almost always on a drowned dry.
Beginners can and do learn this way, but one may want to substitute a pond full of bluegills and other sunfish for a creek with trout - at least for the first few outings.
JSky
Member
Does throwing a parachute Adams for every single variation of a mayfly hatch count as “matching the hatch”? Cause that’s how I roll. 😀
turkey
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I certainly didn't mean any offense by it.
I should clarify, Shakey gives me a little grief for fishing dry flies each spring, while he swings wets through a hatch...and he catches a lot of trout. I'm not married to one style of angling but over the years I've trended towards dry flies when the situation permits. I think, for me, it's about accurate casting, subtle presentation, line management and mending for that perfect drift right in the feeding lane. It's what I like. Wet fly fishing and nymphing have their own unique subtleties and challenges, and I still partake in both.
With regards to the OP, I didn't watch the video...yet.
pcray1231
Well-known member
I think the selectivity of fish varies GREATLY from place to place. As was said, on your freestone mountain trout streams, trout (browns or brookies) often take any dry just fine, absent a hatch at all. They're opportunistic. On the other end of the spectrum you have well fed, heavily fished trout in some slower limestoners that refuse naturals because it's sitting wrong, or only want cripples of a particular type of bug. And you have everything in between. Even within a stream, the fish in the riffles are less selective/more opportunistic than the ones in a slow back eddy, for instance. They gotta make a decision quicker. Some fish, it's not about an exact match of size/color, it's about matching movement or lack thereof. And everything in between.
But a couple of things:
1. During a massive hatch, when there are plenty of bugs to choose from, fish seem to get choosier. Both on top and underneath. Random nymphs may work often, but during a march brown hatch, the fish up there in that thar riffle want march brown nymphs... If they have more than enough available to eat, they get conditioned to the most common. It's a defense mechanism. I've eaten 1000 of these and haven't been hurt yet, so no need to try something new... But keep in mind, the fish in that riffle lie may be conditioned to something different than the one in that tailout, because they see different bugs.
2. I always thought size and how low it sits on the surface film means more than color. Higher sitting, catskill/thorax type ties generally move better, if movement is the trigger, and I'll skim them and such to try to imitate that. But sometimes they want it in the film, like spinners, or even just under the film, like emergers. I've done well at times with floating nymph droppers, tied on dry fly hooks, fished just under the surface.
3. Mostly speaking to bigger water here, but it's a huge advantage to visit a stream section during a major hatch when fish are rising. It improves your nymphing game SUBSTANTIALLY for later trips. And if that's your goal, don't sit on one pod of risers all day, cover water. You note the feeding lies. A pod of fish rising along the far bank here, is a pod of fish nymphing in that same lie tomorrow morning. Right down to which rocks they sit off of. It's always a really nice advantage when the fish tell you where they feed at.
But a couple of things:
1. During a massive hatch, when there are plenty of bugs to choose from, fish seem to get choosier. Both on top and underneath. Random nymphs may work often, but during a march brown hatch, the fish up there in that thar riffle want march brown nymphs... If they have more than enough available to eat, they get conditioned to the most common. It's a defense mechanism. I've eaten 1000 of these and haven't been hurt yet, so no need to try something new... But keep in mind, the fish in that riffle lie may be conditioned to something different than the one in that tailout, because they see different bugs.
2. I always thought size and how low it sits on the surface film means more than color. Higher sitting, catskill/thorax type ties generally move better, if movement is the trigger, and I'll skim them and such to try to imitate that. But sometimes they want it in the film, like spinners, or even just under the film, like emergers. I've done well at times with floating nymph droppers, tied on dry fly hooks, fished just under the surface.
3. Mostly speaking to bigger water here, but it's a huge advantage to visit a stream section during a major hatch when fish are rising. It improves your nymphing game SUBSTANTIALLY for later trips. And if that's your goal, don't sit on one pod of risers all day, cover water. You note the feeding lies. A pod of fish rising along the far bank here, is a pod of fish nymphing in that same lie tomorrow morning. Right down to which rocks they sit off of. It's always a really nice advantage when the fish tell you where they feed at.
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DomR
Active member
I've seen some really nice fish caught by people fishing wets "under the hatch". Seems damn cool to me.
Steeltrap
Active member
Fluorescent Orange bead head soft hackle. Body of ....take your pick...pheasant or peacock. One of my go to fly's and I catch more from these than I do a Wolly-Bugger.
Well.....a Walt's Worm is likely tied at the top.
Well.....a Walt's Worm is likely tied at the top.
Tigereye
Well-known member
The sport has swung back and forth.. If i recall correctly, the Europeans fished for primarily browns with imitative flies on those fertile chalk streams. Dry flies to rising fish only and kill the fish if landed.
Then when fly fishing came to the Americas, the streams were mostly freestone and the trout were brookies. Some beautiful and effective wet flies began to appear. Gaudy attractor creations that slayed the ever hungry brookies. Catch and release begins to take hold.
Then we saw the likes of Marinaro, Schwiebert and others study flies more scientifically and the swing toward imitative flies began. ( Again on the fertile limestone streams of SCPA)
The pendulum is currently swinging the other way. Some of the top selling and successful patterns look nothing like a natual fly. Beads, hot spots, and other flashy materials are incorporated in flies. Also the trend is toward nymphing more so than dry fly. I believe this trend began in Europe in the competition crowd..
There are times when you must match the hatch or get skunked. I find that these times are few and that the further down the water column you fish, the less specific you need to be.
Those frustrating times when rising fish are picky, the fish are usually taking something smaller or something in or on the surface ( emerger or an unseen spinner) . This assumes you have a descent presentation and you havent spooked fish with shadow, lining, drag, or using wrong tippet length / diameter.
Then when fly fishing came to the Americas, the streams were mostly freestone and the trout were brookies. Some beautiful and effective wet flies began to appear. Gaudy attractor creations that slayed the ever hungry brookies. Catch and release begins to take hold.
Then we saw the likes of Marinaro, Schwiebert and others study flies more scientifically and the swing toward imitative flies began. ( Again on the fertile limestone streams of SCPA)
The pendulum is currently swinging the other way. Some of the top selling and successful patterns look nothing like a natual fly. Beads, hot spots, and other flashy materials are incorporated in flies. Also the trend is toward nymphing more so than dry fly. I believe this trend began in Europe in the competition crowd..
There are times when you must match the hatch or get skunked. I find that these times are few and that the further down the water column you fish, the less specific you need to be.
Those frustrating times when rising fish are picky, the fish are usually taking something smaller or something in or on the surface ( emerger or an unseen spinner) . This assumes you have a descent presentation and you havent spooked fish with shadow, lining, drag, or using wrong tippet length / diameter.
Boulders
Member
I fished the Madison River in YNP last September. At 11:15am, trico hatch; size 22 trico was the only thing they would hit for 45-50 mins. If you get a chance to return to YNP in Sept, try Sentinel Creek, about 2 mile hike from the Firehole parking area. It's a meadering meadow creek maybe 5 ft wide, cast blindly with your favorite hopper pattern browns and brooks will crush it.
shakey
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All joking aside, I love fishing a drowned dry.
A trude,crackleback, Griffith’s gnat etc fished dry, then, pulled under , and fished wet, is both fun and often productive
Oregon_OwlII
Active member
It has been my experience that trout in the west are more opportunistic, regardless of what is hatching, while in the east trout are more discriminating. I don't think you can compare the two experiences on equal terms.
tomgamber
Well-known member
I think they still key in on specific bugs. I don't remember the same kind of intense hatch events with the exception of things like mother's day caddis but I was only there 5 years. Bigger problem was places like Silver Creek where there no less than 4 or 5 normally significant bugs coming off all at once. Fished a lot more duns than spinner falls.
D
dryflyguy
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Agree
I challenge the OP to go fish attractors on Spring Creek or the Little J right now - when all they've seen for a long time are BWO's and midges.
Bet the success rate would be very low.
